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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To object to paying two lots of council tax

254 replies

googlenut · 19/02/2015 20:08

We pay really high rates on our own property. We have a rental property - a small flat- which we have been unable to rent. We have just been faced with a £650 council tax bill. If we had students in it the flat would be exempt, if we had one person in it we would get 25% discount but instead we have to pay the full amount when it is empty. I just can't see the fairness of this - but willing to listen if someone can explain the justice of it.

OP posts:
TedAndLola · 19/02/2015 21:17

She didn't ask for advice, she came on to moan, and many people in this country and on Mumsnet suffer real deprivation as a direct consequence of BTL landlords I think the OP has a fucking nerve

Exactly. BTL landlords should hang their heads in shame.

Justanotherlurker · 19/02/2015 21:17

I agree Droflove, it is a business and you cannot guarantee your 'investment' will always rise in value, if you enter that business (even accidently) and then try and say it's not fair shows you haven't looked into it properly, there is always a point at which you should cut your losses and not expect everyone else to bail you out.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 19/02/2015 21:18

The council tax pays for the schools, libraries, parks, roads and cleaning services that make the area where the property is an acceptable place to live in. The costs of running cemeteries and providing social care and cleaning streets don't miraculously vanish into thin air because the LL can't be arsed to tent out her property.

Original poster
googlenut · 19/02/2015 21:28

The flat is in a student area and we couldn't get anyone to rent it in September - we still have it up for rent now and are going to drop the price.
My point is if the house was let to students there would be zero council tax payable (even though three people would be using services). If one person was in (not a student) there would be 25% discount. So this system is not a fair reflection of services used. And we are not deliberately keeping it empty.
People are selling up buy to let's in droves because it is very often not viable. How does this help people looking for rental property. There are many good landlords.

OP posts:
OddBoots · 19/02/2015 21:30

" How does this help people looking for rental property."

"we still have it up for rent now and are going to drop the price. "

DancingHat · 19/02/2015 21:30

We got a moratorium on ct payments when our main home was uninhabitable through damage. Up to 6 months. They even bent the rules because our case didn't strictly fit their rules but they could clearly understand it was uninhabitable in reality.

If it's a disincentive to have empty properties then YABU OP because that encourages rental competition. But I can empathise with paying for something you don't feel you get any benefit from.

SaucyJack · 19/02/2015 21:32

Very, very, very few people would actually choose to rent if they could buy instead- so don't pull that where will everybody live if the unprofitable BTLs are put back on the market at an affordable price nonsense.

Howcanitbe · 19/02/2015 21:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kvetch15 · 19/02/2015 21:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

christinarossetti · 19/02/2015 21:35

Yep, googlenut, there's very little that 'fair' about the current housing situation.

Sounds like you're in this position because you were asking for too high a rent (which is why you're dropping the price).

Not much that needs explaining there, I would say. You took a chance on someone being willing to pay over the market value, and there wasn't anyone willing to do so.

Ergo, the flat is empty and you pay council tax.

That's how it rolls in the world of BTL.

Howcanitbe · 19/02/2015 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

glenthebattleostrich · 19/02/2015 21:41

The BTL landlords we know are selling because their houses are no longer in negative equity.

Some people (like DH) genuinely are unable to sell because the arse fell out of the market and we had to move area for work. Either that or end up repossessed and homeless, which according to some on here we should have.

We are now not selling as we want MIL to move in when she gets to old to manage a house. Is that ok or should we carry on flogging ourselves for daring to not leave ourselves owing the bank thousands or giving a shit about what happens to our family?

MajesticWhine · 19/02/2015 21:42

googlenut - it's not all about the use of services. There has to be a disincentive to leave a property empty, due to the housing shortage.

PrincessPilolevuofTONGA · 19/02/2015 21:44

dancinghat you'd not get empty property relief any more. The rules changed about a year or so ago. Even a property with holes in the roof and no kitchen or bathroom would now be liable to pay, and if it remains empty for more than 2 years 150% becomes due

Justanotherlurker · 19/02/2015 21:48

Is it a uni student population your trying to target, if so your now competing with said universities with there own accommodation.

Long gone are the days where students would happily rent a house where the 'shower' was a hole in the roof (not saying yours is like that), every man and his dog has heard the recent mantra that you supposedly can't lose money in bricks and mortar but there is a tipping point.

If you bought a student flat and couldn't rent it out in September you have been sold a dud or your pricing way to high, as for 'being unfair' you have had the 6 months grace, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

lemisscared · 19/02/2015 21:48

This has to be the bigest first world problem i have ever read on here!!!!

YABsoU!!! I assume you have the property for profit? Well then get it rented and sort it out.

I would have had a bit more sympathy if you had posted asking for a way around the problem, but your post is pretty much the most entitled post ive read.

Oh and if you can't afford the rates on your property - sell it and move into the flat! sorted.

KatoPotato · 19/02/2015 21:55

Don't worry OP this guy loves you!

Do you have metro tiles and low level halogens?

To object to paying two lots of council tax
Tobyjugg · 19/02/2015 21:55

Property is taxed. The more property one has, the more tax one pays - what's unfair about that?

Original poster
googlenut · 19/02/2015 21:55

We haven't had 6 months grace - we have been charged from the first month the property was empty

OP posts:
itsmeitscathy · 19/02/2015 22:04

I don't get why this is any less worthy of an AIBU than anything else. I don't think it's greedy to own more than one property - it's a form of work like anything else. As for those calling BTL landlords thieves...seriously?!

For the record, I'm not a landlord. I just don't get why everyone has gone so mad at the OP.

FickleFecker · 19/02/2015 22:07

I am currently paying council tax on both the properties i am renting. Notice period for one house overlaps with the beginning of the new house. No negotiation was possible. Now that doesn't seem fair to me.

loopylucylou · 19/02/2015 22:14

I never cease to be amazed by quite how thick landlords on here are.

Justanotherlurker · 19/02/2015 22:16

itsmeitscathy if you can't join up the dots between 'accidental landlords', 'just a business', 'the young/unemployed being priced out', and 'need for social housing' then I suggest you do a little more reading.

KatoPotato · 19/02/2015 22:20

Found this to be a off from the guardian today...

To object to paying two lots of council tax
christinarossetti · 19/02/2015 22:22

If BLT is a 'form of work like any others' it contains some risks.

One of which is overpricing the property so that no-one wants to rent it and having to pay full council tax, which is what is being discussed here.

It's not a state secret that empty properties incur full council tax; surely any sensible landlord would take this into account when they're deciding what price to put the property on the market at etc.