Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To object to paying two lots of council tax

254 replies

googlenut · 19/02/2015 20:08

We pay really high rates on our own property. We have a rental property - a small flat- which we have been unable to rent. We have just been faced with a £650 council tax bill. If we had students in it the flat would be exempt, if we had one person in it we would get 25% discount but instead we have to pay the full amount when it is empty. I just can't see the fairness of this - but willing to listen if someone can explain the justice of it.

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 19/02/2015 22:24

googlenut

Your coming across as an 'investment' buy, when did you buy, what was your expected returns and what research did you do?

christinarossetti · 19/02/2015 22:24

So in answer to your AIBU OP, yes you are.

You chose to put the property on the market at a rent that no-one would pay, hence it's unoccupied.

itsmeitscathy · 19/02/2015 22:25

I am young. I read. However, I don't believe that being a landlord makes you a bad person which seems to be being implied (or outright stated). There are plenty of reasons for renting which are not just about not being afford to buy. Yes, there are some terrible landlords out there but equally not all landlords are bad.

From where I'm standing the housing situation has more to do with previous governments systematically getting rid of our housing stock.

ReallyTired · 19/02/2015 22:29

Many local councils have a scheme by which they act as letting agents to tenants on benefits. In my town the landlord gets a very low but guaranteed rent. Unlike conventional tenancies the landlord has to lease the property for five years to he council.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 19/02/2015 22:31

Where did the housing stock go to, Cathy?

McFox · 19/02/2015 22:32

There are a lot of things that are unfair about the housing market. People with the good fortune to own multiple properties who bleat on about not being able to get their full pound of flesh out of those who are forced to rent every month is enraging, not unfair.

tiggytape · 19/02/2015 22:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Floppityflop · 19/02/2015 22:37

Surely not 650 a month? If you pay the year's amount you should get a refund when tenants move in.

PrimalLass · 19/02/2015 22:48

Thing is, not everyone wants to buy, so surely someone has to be a landlord? Houses are sitting on the market in our village but you can't get a rental property for love nor money.

Justanotherlurker · 19/02/2015 22:50

Previous governments did get rid of housing stock, but (as I presume the angle your coming from) labour didn't address the problem within the 13 years they was in government.

The problem was/is that due to easy credit and favourable taxes many people piled into 'house renovations' that even the bbc was saying all you needed to do was paint it in magnolia and keep it for 6 months to earn a couple of thousand profit.

The issue is that it is a business and at some point it becomes saturated, there wasn't much talk about gentrification and pricing out the locals/unemployed during the good years and as such because it's a business you have to accept you go into it full eyes open, you might fail, that doesn't make it unfair.

gallicgirl · 19/02/2015 22:56

Council tax isn't a charge for services used. It is a statutory property tax. The money raised funds the essential services councils are legally obliged to provide. Given how much central government grants to local authorities have been cut, council tax accounts for at least half of any council's budget.

The use of discounts and premiums is an effective way to get housing back into use as quickly as possible during a housing shortage.

Justanotherlurker · 19/02/2015 23:04

primalass I think that shows the inherent problem with the housing market, rents and house prices are to much for your local area, social conscience goes out the window when personal profit is on the line.

TokenGinger · 19/02/2015 23:19

googlenut I feel your pain. When I bought my first house last year, I remained at my mum's whilst it was being renovated. I phoned the Council Tax office as I wanted to do everything as correct as possible, and they wanted to charge me full rate on my house! Even though, as I was a second adult registered at my mum's we paid the full rate there for me to live there. But if I registered to live at my house, it would have been 25% less. So when I said well unregister me from my mum's and put me at my house so I have my discount, she said I cannot do that, you've told me you're not living there, you have no bed there etc. So I said, "Well, I'll bring my pillow and my duvet from my mum's and sleep on my sofa! Send your guys around to look through my window if you like and you'll see me snoozing!"

Bloody idiots.

25% discount if I'm living here and full price if it's empty because I had no kitchen or bathroom!! Fools.

AntiHop · 19/02/2015 23:20

Googlenut I think you're missing the point about council tax. Councils want to minimise empty properties to reduce the number of people who need support from the council for housing such as homeless families. The council doesn't have an obligation to support everyone who is homeless but they do have a legal duty to house some people under certain circumstances. This costs a lot of money to the council eg housing families in temporary accommodation. So if they can reduce the amount of people they need yo support, by incentivising landlords to ensure their properties are rented out in their area. it saves the council money.

Your post comes across as entitled. So many people need a place to live but you've got an empty property as you've priced it too high. Why don't you rent it via the council? You can get long and secure lets.

LineRunner · 19/02/2015 23:28

The house next door to me is a BTL for students. Last year's lot trashed it. I mean, it needed gutting. New bathroom, beds, all internal and external doors, floors, the staircase ...the deposits went nowhere near covering it.

The landlord learned his lesson about trying to play the lucrative student 'per room' market, where you can stick one in the living room as well.

If he'd had a family in, and charged less, he would have made more profit. Or not run at a loss.

Madge404 · 19/02/2015 23:37

YABU. As a landlord, you are operating as a business - there is income and there are outgoings. When the income drops (or stops) the outgoings remain and in this case include CT. I do understand that it must be worrying not to have rented out your property, but you need to weigh up whether it is a long-term investment, drop the rent and get tenants in place, or sell the flat now. Being a BTL landlord is a constant worry and (if done with one property to finance a move) not going to guarantee a long-term profit, but should be entered into knowing what all the financial repercussions of having an empty property would be, as this is likely to happen at some point or another.

TarkaTheOtter · 19/02/2015 23:42

I'm a btl landlord. My council gives 3 months grace on council tax (rural though so maybe less issue with empty properties).

We have moved abroad temporarily and our renting ourselves in our new country. I think we are good landlords and so far have had good tenants. It doesn't make sense for us to sell up and buy again when we return in a few years because of stamp duty and selling costs. Lots of people actually want/need to rent rather than buy for all sorts of reasons not just financial ones.

TarkaTheOtter · 19/02/2015 23:44

Sorry, thinking about it I suppose I am not a btl landlord as originally bought property as family home. It is now a business though and we see it as our tenants home and our asset.

itsaysonthetin · 20/02/2015 08:35

God, lots of bitter, jealous knob ends out in force at the moment.

And I say that as someone who most definitely cannot afford to buy even one property.

OP - Yes, sorry but you are being unreasonable to object to paying two lots of council tax. You knew that was a distinct possibility when you originally bought the house - it's rare that properties are always rented out through seamless back to back periods.

When the house is occupied, you don't need to pay any council tax on the property (that being the responsibility of the tenants), and you receive income from it. A bought to rent property is an investment - it will bring you money most of the time (even if it's just paying off the mortgage), but it isn't going to be a golden ticket which never, ever costs you money through change of circumstances.

However, owning a second property which you rent out doesn't make you some kind of evil pillock, sitting on a chair of diamonds and plotting against the commoners.

That's the Duke of Westminster's job.

lurkerspeaks · 20/02/2015 08:42

I'm an accidental landlord. I'm currently subsidising people to live in my flat as the rental yields in my home city are very low.

Yabu though. Council tax is a property tax and you should have factored it in to your calculations.

Pinkrosesarebest · 20/02/2015 08:43

The amount of negative comments on this thread is overwhelming. People need to own two properties in order for there to be houses to rent! Not everyone wants to buy! It would be nice for London prices to come down but London used to be horrible and no one wanted to live there. Now it is clean and buzzing, financial powerhouse, a world player. You cannot have it all unfortunately.

FinallyHere · 20/02/2015 08:46

Best think to do, would be to get rid of the second property. That would certainly save you the local tax. Sigh.

Original poster
googlenut · 20/02/2015 08:47

Just to be clear the vast majority of buy to let properties are on interest only mortgages. So tenants aren't actually paying off the mortgage of landlords. Landlords are just paying interest (or rent to the bank if you like) for the loan of the money to buy the property. The capital is not reducing every month.
The council tax rules have changed since we bought the property.

OP posts:
adsy · 20/02/2015 08:51

To those who say there is no reason to be an accidental landlord and any house will sell at the right price, you're talking bollox. maybe in London etc. but many places have almost no house market activity.
2 years ago I tried to sell my house. £30 k less than I'd paid for it 7 years previously. Guess how many viewers I got. 2. that was in 12 months.
It's the same with all the houses round here. they just sit for sale for literally years.
If you have to move for work/ care for a relative etc. and you can't afford to either take a massive loss or pay 2 mortgages or 1 mortgage and 1 rent then renting it out is the only option.
Always seems to be a lot of bitterness about ll's on here.

Gatekeeper · 20/02/2015 08:58

I have some sympathies; when my MIL died we couldn't sell or rent the house out as it was in a not very nice area and needed a LOT doing to it. We had to pay full council tax on that until it did eventually sell for a tenth of what it was advertised at . A struggles when we have only one wage coming in and money tight.