to want to move 'up north'?

[onemiddlefinger]

That is if South Yorkshire is actually considered 'up north'?
We have always lived in London and now DH might have a job offer near Sheffield and i'm actually surprised that really want to move.
If someone told me 3 years ago that we might be moving nearly 3h away from London i would have been laughing, but now it might be a reality and i'm really hoping it works out.

We would have less money each month, but i would be able to stay home with DC for a few years and we would have much more space, a lovely house, a garden and DH would have more free time to spend with us.
I'm just so sick and tired of squeezing into our tiny flat and worrying about the downstairs neighbours coming to complain again about the noise and the commute on packed tube trains and just generally people everywhere.

AIBU?
Maybe it's just a phase of being fed up and once we actually move i'll be missing London? This is really all i can think about the last few days and in my head i'm already decorating the house and imagining us there - kids happy playing, our family able to come and visit (they live in another country) and actually be able to stay with us comfortably.

Winky Skipton to Leeds on a local train and then the East Coast mainline service straight to London. Takes just over 3 hours.

Some of the limited stop Leeds to London trains take less than 2 hours.

"it's not a criticism, it's a fact. London is the most modern, developed, richest, varied city in the UK. of course it is it's the capital."

Yes, but it's still not the be all of everything and it is accessible to all of us. Shame most people in real life struggle to afford to live there apart from the super rich.

It is also true that when I lived in London, I did very little London stuff. Shame on me.

I don't think northerners are chippy but I really think they should be given how long they've missed out on development and investment over the decades.

The north does have an awful lot to offer, not least cheaper housing and excellent schools - grammar schools, various outstanding high schools. What's not to like?

As someone who has lived in Surrey and London (Clapham/Wandsworth) for years (as well as Scotland - Edin and West Yorkshire - Leeds) and have spent most of my working life in London (i.e. a portion of most weeks) I do disagree with you. Of course I may be misreading your definition of backward?

Oh yes sport. How could I forget.

Well apart from football (the north has a few pretty good teams), there are some damn good facilities outside the capital. In fact, the London Olympics would a) not have happened without the Manchester Commonwealth Games doing such a good job and proving we can carry it off as a country and b) the legacy from the Commonwealth Games meant we had some half decent athletes to compete at London because of the investment in sport and facilities in Manchester. Most notably the cycling, but not restricted to it.

In fact due to funding, a lot of sports have moved their HQ to outside to capital because of the cost of property and land and because the cost of living in the capital makes it prohibitive to pursue an international sporting career unless you are earning mega bucks through it. The reality is you are lucky if you get a sporting grant of some description and these are difficult to live on, never mind get the equipment you might need.

London only really caught up with some facilities due to London 2012.

I saw some research a while back about where the most successful sportspeople came from and the result was actually not big cities but provisional towns which was interesting in its own right. You could may the argument that this is because there is feck all else to do in provisional towns or people see it as their only way to escape, but I think its more than parents living in provisional towns perhaps tend to have more time and ability to support their children in sport than those living in major cities for a variety of reasons.

I'd also like to know why we feel 'backward' compared to London. Is this because we haven't disappeared up our own arses with trying to be cool, or because we don't have so many tall buildings, or because we don't have the Underground. Or because you watch too many shitty 'grim op north' BBC dramas? (All of which seem to miss the fact that there is a thriving large middle class in the North. Its just its not deemed particularly socially acceptable to admit to this)

Well, just to put an alternative view, having lived in another northern city, I'm not sure I would ever want to leave London to go back there. Yes, we could have a bigger house, more garden, but I would miss the diversity of London. I love that our neighbours are from all over the world and do all manner of jobs, that there's a one room arthouse cinema, a tiny brewery, a few artist studios and a beautiful library on our scruffy zone 2 street. Our children have a tiny garden but a huge park next door, a free pre-school activity we can walk to every day for the little one and all their friends in walking distance. Of course, there's wonderful art and theatre and diversity in other cities, but I have never felt the same living elsewhere. I thought I might want to go back north as our children reached school age, but in fact I'm even more sure now that I want to stay in our corner of south London now.

So, none of that may matter to you, but I found that a big house just didn't make up for the joy I get from our little corner of London.

I'm a northerner displaced I the south.

I visit often as my family is all still up there.

It is different. Some things are better but some things are worse ( though you would never be allowed to voice the later)

fourquartets - would you mind me asking which bit of zone 2 you're living in - you make it sound lovely!

I love that our neighbours are from all over the world and do all manner of jobs, that there's a one room arthouse cinema, a tiny brewery, a few artist studios and a beautiful library on our scruffy zone 2 street. Our children have a tiny garden but a huge park next door, a free pre-school activity we can walk to every day for the little one and all their friends in walking distance. Of course, there's wonderful art and theatre and diversity in other cities, but I have never felt the same living elsewhere. I thought I might want to go back north as our children reached school age, but in fact I'm even more sure now that I want to stay in our corner of south London now.

We have all that in Leeds. We have one of the country's largest Afro Carribean origin population and annual carnival. I often see African ladies carrying their shopping on their heads. Our indoor market has Polish shops. We have loads of people of Indian and Pakistani origins so Curry Miles, Mosques, Temples etc. I'm sure it's exactly the same for Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield. Manchester is well known for it's China Town.

We also have:

Cottage Road Cinema, Headingley
Microbreweries gallore
Yorkshire Sculpture Park
Barbara Hepworth Gallery
Salts Mill including the new David Hockney Exhibition
Leeds Library and Art Gallery and its cafe
Loads of city parks like Roundhay Park, Temple Newsam, Lotherton Hall
Theatres and Concert Arenas

Seriously, there is nothing unique to London that is worth the hassle and expense of living within 50 miles of the place for at least 90% of the population. And those of you that love it so much are welcome to it .

Oh its definitely different but that's the thing. Different. Not worse. The suggestion that somehow there are a lack of opportunity in education, travel or culture is however absurd.

We live near Loughborough junction station, by Ruskin park. It's a a mix of very scruffy and gradually gentrifying around us, but we've found it to be a very happy place.

And yes, I've lived in Birmingham and Leeds and they both have culture, diversity and playgroups! But I still feel an energy in London which I didn't elsewhere. Which isn't to say everyone has to feel the same of course!

If I were very rich I would consider living in London - but I admit that I find the scale of the place off-putting. When I was in my 20's, I wanted to be where the action was and so I lived in San Francisco, loved NYC. Now, while I still prefer the city to anywhere else, I find that I a city like Manchester gives me everything I need without the hassle.

I have never been to Sheffield so I have no idea what it is like. I go to Liverpool and Leeds quite often for gigs and they both seem nice although I think I would prefer Leeds. It's just a personal thing of mine based on having met quite a few bizarre people in Liverpool.

One thing I do like about London is never being asked anything about being American. They truly don't seem to give a shit. I expect they already meet lots of Americans and so I'm not interesting to them. I get very, very bored with having the same conversation and telling people that I'm from Ohio, where Ohio is, why I moved here, and which do I prefer and then I get to listen to them tell me about their trip to Florida. Liverpool has been the worst for this, in my experience, with random people just walking up to me and wanting to talk about my accent. I suppose this is just friendly openness which, as an American, you would think I'd appreciate but I'm so sick of the topic that I wish I could avoid it.

The only cultural advantage of London for me, personally, is the touring bands that will stop there. I like a particular niche of music and the bands that tour Europe will sometimes only visit London before touring the continent. So, I do sometimes take the train down to London to see bands play. Very convenient it is, too - train to Euston which is very close to Camden. Getting a train home is not so easy unless I stay in a hotel and I have stayed in a couple of pretty scary places just to save money on that. Still, it works as a place to leave my bag and I often end up staying out all night with friends so it doesn't matter.

Seriously, there is nothing unique to London

Nonsense. You listing that fact that you have "loads of people of Indian and Pakistani origin" and seeing "African woman with bags in their head" made me chuckle. Have you been to London? Seriously? Beyond Leicester square and Madame Tussaud, have you actually been to London?

I was just listing examples of how we have pretty much all the things in the north that are in London. It is not a comprehensive list of the origin of every person in Leeds FGS.

And yes I have been to London and travelled extensively across many areas and worked there for several months.

On here people persistently complain that housing is prohibitively expensive, that people earning double the national average are poor. This very major issue can be addressed by simply not living in London or the South East.

But yet there are people on here that claim that the rest of the country is 'backward' and lacking in opportunity in 'travel, culture and education' to such a degree that they would rather cripple themselves with housing costs to remain in the capital, which I find baffling.

And not one person has yet managed to explain how London is ahead of the rest of the country in a way that is meaningful to normal people, apart from some mysterious energy that the rest of the country apparently lacks.

But if you think its worth paying 5 times more for your house just so you can say that you live within 200 yards of a person from Kiribati, then that's up to you .

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat: I was just listing examples of how we have pretty much all the things in the north that are in London
Didn't know the British Museum moved to Leeds. Also the National Galery, the Tate... Also didn't know Leeds had educational facilities on par with, say Imperial... and if your child wants an internship at Westminster, or the City... or study at the SOAS... the north is not quite the place, is it?

I think one of things I find least appealing about people living in the north is their sheer defensiveness.

Yes the north has very msny positive elements that make it a good place to live, but the refusal to see that you cannot be all things to all men, is both myopic and pervasive.

Sheffield is a great city precisely because it isnt London. It doesn't have it's problems but conversely it doesn't have it's positive aspects too. Just obvious really.

The Word Factory...I know! very funny.

nobody has said the north is shit. people have just said that a city like Sheffield can never compare to London. It can't. It doesn't. Doesn't mean it isn't a great place to live

Ha Ha - South yorks isn't north it's south. Joking apart, we live in Gateshead having moved across the river from Newcastle. I am a "native" but my DH and the majority of our friends migrated from the south many years ago and have stayed and love it. However I would love to find these extraordinarily cheap houses. Standard price for a 3 bed in a naice area round here would be approx £200k but much more in the posh areas. We have great public transport but my DS1 who lives in London thinks our basic journey costs are very expensive but our travel card not bad. I pay £68 a month for inner city zone. There are lots of benefits to the north - excellent hospitals, good independent and state schools, great shops etc etc but we lack the really good choice of excellent restaurants you get in London although things are improving. Both our sons 24 and 22 very much hope to move back here so it can't be that bad. fourquartets we most certainly have all that and more on our doorstep. Great music scene too and easy access to the coast, the Lakes, Northumberland and Scotland. I still love going to London though and would like to live there if I was very, very rich. .

Iona you do realise that these institutions are open to people outside of London too, don't you? You don't actually have to be born and brought up in London to attend Imperial, even foriegners manage it, let alone people from other UK cities.

In the game of top trumps between London and other cities, I can beat any of them with what my village has. Xanthophylls. That's really clean air, to anyone not in the know. Admittedly, it sometimes smells of animal poo.

I was bought up in South London, we sold up and bought a house mortgage free in Chorlton, Manchester. It's great, very friendly, super cafes, bars and restaurants. Quality of life is brilliant.

I had the option of moving back to London, and declined, why struggle for a standard of living that is easy to obtain up north.

Go for it.

I also agree word.

along with opinions such as below that put me off (a host of other features too but don't fancy getting drawn in to that!)

But if you think its worth paying 5 times more for your house just so you can say that you live within 200 yards of a person from Kiribati, then that's up to you

Where do I start?!

Defensive northerners just undermine their own position. Sheffield, Leeds etc are not anywhere near the world city that London is, and never will be. It's bloody tiresome when people pretend they are comparable. They aren't. It doesn't mean they don't have merits, or that they are obviously superior to London.

I like the North for what it is, ie not London!

Shovetheholly
I live in actual Royston Vasey and I love it! We're actually very welcoming to outsiders these days

Oh and OP- about forty minutes from Sheffield!

London IS unique, it DOES have a buzz about it. But in my opinion, that buzz is one borne of people always slightly on the edge - it's near constant, subtle semi-hysteria. People always having to rush somewhere because it takes an age to get home/work, always in a huge crowd, following each other through the tube tunnels like sheep. Crushing onto an already over-crowded tube train otherwise you just won't get to work in time. Constant low-level stress that people are in your personal space.

You don't even notice it when you do it for a few years. You become one of them. It's only when you move out to a normal city that you realise it's possible to stroll along a clear pavement, or get on a train at rush hour and nearly always get a seat, or get in your car and be the other side of the city in 20 mins. Or open your flat window and NOT hear a police car or a horn beeping every half an hour, and breathe in non-exhaust fumes for air.

It really is the little things that make life better in other cities better than London. Of course, if all those little things don't bother you - if you like the cut and thrust, the rush and the "buzz" (and let's face it, most of us do when we're young), then London's the perfect place to be. No doubt about it. We all grow older though and start to want the pace of life to be a little less frenetic. To not want it to be a struggle just to go from A to B.

We still want the theatres, museums and culture, and they do exist in other cities. But so does the space, and slower and more relaxed pace of life, and the value-for-money feeling that you get. I didn't tire of life but I did tire of London.