to want to move 'up north'?

[onemiddlefinger]

That is if South Yorkshire is actually considered 'up north'?
We have always lived in London and now DH might have a job offer near Sheffield and i'm actually surprised that really want to move.
If someone told me 3 years ago that we might be moving nearly 3h away from London i would have been laughing, but now it might be a reality and i'm really hoping it works out.

We would have less money each month, but i would be able to stay home with DC for a few years and we would have much more space, a lovely house, a garden and DH would have more free time to spend with us.
I'm just so sick and tired of squeezing into our tiny flat and worrying about the downstairs neighbours coming to complain again about the noise and the commute on packed tube trains and just generally people everywhere.

AIBU?
Maybe it's just a phase of being fed up and once we actually move i'll be missing London? This is really all i can think about the last few days and in my head i'm already decorating the house and imagining us there - kids happy playing, our family able to come and visit (they live in another country) and actually be able to stay with us comfortably.

I live in Sheffield and love it. We lived in London until dd1 was born then moved back (I'm from here originally) and have never regretted it. Dh does now have to commute to Leeds for work and had to work in Manchester for a while but actually both those commutes are shorter than we would have had if we had stayed in London. The city centre is a bit run down in places but there's a lot of regeneration going on and it's a very safe place to bring up children. We have great theatre, Peak District on the doorstep, kids are at an outstanding state school 5 minutes walk away. We do still go to London a lot to visit friends but it's only just over 2 hours on the train.

I wouldn't move to anywhere rural in South Yorkshire as you stand a high chance of ending up in Royston Vesey. I made this mistake and it was like moving to hell. Sheffield, however, is wonderful.

London is fantastic in terms of what it can offer recreationally and employment opportunities but in your circumstances I'd move up north like a shot. Sheffield is everything other OPs have said and would offer you and your family a better quality of life. The only thing to be aware of is Sheffield is very reliant on public sector jobs and this may be a cause for concern depending on the result of the election in May.

Jarvis is still seen round these parts a fair bit, Mr Jolly. And his niece works at our local pub. She's the absolute image of him (great pub too).

As an exiled southerner, living in the NE, I love it up here. I was always an outdoorsy type anyway, and in Sheffield there are concerts, culture and lovely places to eat, as well as good schools. The only thing I miss is family (still down south) and friends, but we make an effort to meet up anyway (although I will admit that some friends expect me to make all the effort and come South all the time!). Good luck with it all.

sheffield is lovely. we bought a 3 bed semi in north notts for under 90k. huuuge garden. can be insheffield in under 30 minutes from here (when the motorway eventually returns to 70mph anyway!)

Re: the cigarette smoke - it's definitely more noticeable in London. I remember in my first week here, braving Oxford St with its innumerable scaffolding, and being caught under some behind a smoking lad. The smokers standing outside pubs take up all the pavement space so there's no room to avoid it.

It wouldn't happen oop North I can assure you - the smokers have more room for their fumes to percolate!

The part of Sheffield close to the Pennines is nice. Sheffield is a very student heavy city though so you need to pick your area well.

Not being snarky OP, but do Londoners generally have the impression of "the North" as being stuck in the coal strike era? Because people talk with horror about moving away from the civilisation of London and I really don't get it. What do people think we don't have? There's been electricity in these parts for a while now, along with indoor plumbing and hot water. We've even got the odd gastro pub and sushi if that's your thing...

When I go to London on business I deal with a range of professional people and it comes up/is noticed if they are smokers because of the nature of the business. In Manchester, I would say about 20% of them are smokers. In London it's more like 70% - and they're generally the same "sort" of people in both places in terms of social class, race, etc.

I also noticed that they make a lot of comments about Manchester (when it comes up in conversation) that indicates they think Manchester is an impoverished backwater. They don't seem to know that it's a prosperous, lovely city.

Those are only anecdata and based solely on my own experiences. :)

I would not do it. Once you move away from London, you will never be able to move back, especially if you buy elsewhere, because of the difference in property prices and the difference in the increase rate of property prices in London compared to the north. Your children would have uncomparable opportunities in London as regards both studies, culture and travelling. A few extra bedrooms and a garden with a few flower beds is not worth giving this up. Plus chances are by the time your kids are marriageable age, from the price of your London property you'll be able to buy them each, and yourselves a property each up north, if that's what you want.

Ah the words of an uneducated southerner. Please keep pushing this myth so we can keep the riff raff out of the north thanks.

We have this place called Manchester Airport within 15 mins drive of where I live. Its great. Its runway is one of only two in the country big enough to accommodate the A380. Heathrow being the other.

Clearing customs and immigration at Manchester is generally a real joy compared with Heathrow. Everytime I go through Heathrow it takes well over an hour, but I can do it regularly at Manchester in less than 20 minutes. Also since they've done it up, the facilities and shops at Manchester are better than Heathrow in the fact, that you can actually afford to buy things there including the food (May I recommend the pub at Terminal 1. They sell excellent local food and beer and generally piss all over their Weatherstones equivalent at Heathrow). We also have an airport called Liverpool John Lennon, just down the road. It specialises in budget flights and also has the effect of keeping flights at Manchester competitive. The range of short haul flights between the two airports is great - and generally cheaper than flying out of Heathrow. If you want to do budget in London, then it's generally a trek out to Luton. Which adds to the cost of your trip. Yes long haul flights out of Manchester tend to be more expensive, however this is offset by the cost of parking and cost of eating at the airport (a lesson learned from experience). In terms of the range of destinations, there are fewer places that you can get to direct from Manchester. However this is expanding and really doesn't restrict you too much. A transfer to more 'exotic' places isn't really a hardship, and Manchester/Liverpool suffice for the majority of holiday makers. If you want to travel to other places, then tbh, if you can't cope with going indirect then why bother at all. For business travellers there might be a bit more of a case, but honestly Manchester does cover most places these days.

Plus if you live in the North you may well have more disposable income than if you live in London. This means you can afford to travel; whats the point in having an airport that flies everywhere near you, if you can't afford to go anywhere anyway?

So that's travel.

Culture. Let me see. Well, I've seen virtually every band I've ever wanted to see. The M6/M62 corridor is great. I can get to Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Birmingham within an hour an a half. London is just over two hours direct. If I live in the SE, the chances are I'd have to get public transport and in most cases it'd take me the best part of an hour to get where I wanted anyway. If I want to do London Museums and Art Galleries, hoping on the train for a day trip is affordable if planned in advance. Plus I don't have the costs of living there all the time. And a small point here, but most of my friends from London NEVER actually did this anyway, and I found myself in the peculiar situation of having been more regularly to see our capitals culture than them, because people have a tendency not to do museums on their doorstep unless they have visitors from outside the area. I also thought that castles and country estates and countryside in general have cultural value in the UK due to the fact that most places tend to have a great deal of history. But obviously because they aren't in a 'dusty museum' in London they aren't important and aren't centres of culture. Only Beefeaters and the Queen count. And the dear old BBC... we'll just forget they fucked off up to Manchester cos its better and cheaper and they realised we sell good cheese up here.

So that's culture.

Education. Well I wasn't aware that there was this enormous educational divide. The league tables tell me differently. I live close to a Science Enterprise Zone which has got shed loads of funding and does a lot to encourage apprenticeships. There's a very good nuclear industry up here which is world leading. Until recently Astra Zeneca had a very big presence here (though admittedly half of that has now gone). If I'm paying a hefty mortgage in London, I couldn't possibly afford to save for their university expenses (not concerned about fees), so they might potentially miss out or I'd have to move out of the capital much earlier than you suggest.

So whilst you sit in London on your 'pot of gold' waiting for it to mature, we'll get on with the business of actually living and enjoying life, travelling, getting an education and making roots so when the time our kids are marriageable (the average age is now 30) we won't have to think about a massive upheaval in all our lives and having to make new friends. And what is the fucking point in having this marvellous education you can only get in London where there are all these opportunities that don't exist anywhere else? Wouldn't that mean you would have to either get your kids to make the 'sacrifice' you are unwilling to do now and move out, or you move away from your friends, family and potential grandkids? The truth is that life in London is unsustainable for many people and businesses, especially if you want a good quality of life, so they are moving out and creating opportunities outside the capital that didn't exist a few years ago.

Lets face it, you are talking a right load of bollocks. The Times (ha!) did 101 best places to live in the UK. The top place according to last years list was Skipton in West Yorkshire. Bristol rated as the top city. I really do hate to piss all over your chips. The question is more why the fuck would you want to say in London if you had the opportunity to move out to somewhere nice elsewhere?

P.S. I like rain. I can afford to go to Spain if I want to. It can be cheaper to get a flight there from Manchester, than get the train to London. That's before I talk about hotel prices... How's that for culture?

Do it OP!!! I was born in Sussex, moved to Sheffield in 2001 when I met my late H, made the mistake of moving back to Sussex last year. Totally homesick for Sheff and can't wait to go back. (Next year hopefully)

Like anywhere else Sheffield has good areas and bad so spend some time in the city and talk to people to see where they recommend.

Haha I think RedToothBrush might have argued that point quite comprehensively!

But if you're still wavering OP just remember that Yorkshire would have come 12th in the Olympics medal table if it entered as it's own country so we can't be doing too badly for sporting opportunities either... (or maybe it's all the steroids in the water?)

The north is beautiful. Did you watch le tour? All that beautiful countryside for FREE! And yes the North is civilised, though some accents are hard to decipher (Barnsley), but housing is cheap and people are genuinely friendly. I did live near Penistone and we did often refer to it as Penis town...but that's the great thing northerners can take the pee out of themselves.

I'd go, your a 2 hour train ride from London, directly from Sheffield, that's a day trip!

You're not your...oh and it makes me laugh at loud thinking all the poor people who leave London who are taking opportunities away from their children! Oh that clean air...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

RedToothBrush

other cities in the UK (not just the north) do feel very backward compared to London. It just depends how much that matters to you.

Oh God, I would go like a shot if I could! Sheffield itself is a great, friendly, down-to-earth town with a lot going on. I you are moving from London you have an opportunity for a much better quality of life because housing is so much cheaper than the SE and commutes way shorter. Plus - the big draw for me- you can be in the beautiful Peak District in twenty mins-half an hour on a gorgeous day. What's not to love?

RedToothBrush, what a brilliant post!

I spent a few weeks in Sheffield for work. It's the only place that I ever felt threatened in a pub, so much so that I had to leave. I quite liked parts of the city though. I also spent some time in Rawtenstall. Pretty surroundings but grotty town. Home is where the heart and family is, though right. I wouldn't want to move from the SE.

Thanks to RedToothBrush for that excellent summary. I too have been racking my brains trying to think what we don't have up here that is on everyone's doorstep in London and I'm not sure I can think of anything significant.

I agree that the weather is better in the south (A couple of years ago I spent a few months working in London and that I will give you). I will also use that experience to dispute the 'in London everything is on your doorstep' argument.

At the time, BIL and SIL lived in London and I thought, 'Ill go and see them while I'm here' they're only 10 miles away (if that) and I looked up how long it took to get there and it was about an hour and a half each way so unfortunately I couldn't squeeze a 3 hour round trip in while I was working 60 hour weeks as well.

Considering I can get from my house in Leeds to London Kings Cross in 2.5 hours, I don't think taking nearly as long to do a short journey while your are there makes it worth livning there full time.

Public transport is better (by which I mean more frequent and runs for longer each day) in London, but that is mainly due to the massively higher investment in London compared to the rest of the country. I believe that the Government is spending nearly as much on Crossrail in London as it is on the entire HS2 project, which will probably benefit rich southeners who want to live in the north because its much better and work in London more than it will give us northerners access to London. And as it will probably cost more to use it than it is to fly to the Canaries, I'm not getting excited about being able to get to London a bit quicker.

Oh, yes airports. I've been to Heathrow, its massive. I expect Gatwick and Stansted are too. The last time I went on holiday it was via Manchester, which is also massive and too big, too crowded taking too long to get from the car park to the terminal and through security etc etc.

There's a lot to be said for regional airports - you can park right outside the terminal and be through security in no time at all compared to the big airports - so it's Leeds, Liverpool or Doncaster all the way for me from now on. I have no desire to go to the US, Asia, Australia or the Carribean, so they fly whereever I want to go.

OK, I can think of a small selection of shops that we don't have yet (eg Uniqlo), but they all have online shopping.

After all, how often do people who live in London go and look at Buckingham Palace, or the Houses of Parliament, or the British Museum, or whatever else it is that is unique to London? Probably no more than us northeners with our annual weekend breaks there?

other cities in the UK (not just the north) do feel very backward compared to London. It just depends how much that matters to you

Can you give specific examples please? Obviously we backward northerners can't imagine what we are missing, having never experienced flying cars or teleportation or whatever it is that unbackward London has.

ha ha northerners are so chippy.
it's not a criticism, it's a fact. London is the most modern, developed, richest, varied city in the UK. of course it is it's the capital.

How long from Skipton to London then by train? How would you get there?

Having rich foreigners buying up all the housing, pushing it out of the reach of even well paid working people, leading to property developers wanting to cram in even more housing to be sold at prices that even well off people can't afford, forcing people to live miles away from where they work and still spend too much of their income on housing and travel is a good thing for the majority of the population?

I'll mek do wi mi whippets n flat cap ta very much love .