to not want my 3rd child to be referred to as my second, because the second died

[redandwhitetoadstool]

my dc3 keeps being called my 2nd

keep getting comments like when its your second xyz

comments like oh yeah the second doesn get more ill because they are exposed to more germs etc

I think its well ment and not ment to harm but painful

I honestly don't know if im being over sensitive about this

but our second child died shortly after being born, on the same day
so will always to us be our second
but of course we never actually had the chance to parent our second child

to other people, I get that it seemed a bit to them like that child never existed
but this is actually my mother that keeps doing this and it keeps really upsetting me

You are in no way in the wrong.

I would find this dreadful in a friend but your mum? Good god.

Of course your child should be remembered as your child and an essential part of the family.

Would your mother deny the existsnce of a deceased parent or uncle/aunt? Of course not.

A baby or a child who sadly dies is just as much part of family as an adult who dies. As is a child who was miscarried. They were once alive too.

So sorry this is happening to you op and my sympathies to all on this thread who have suffered loss.

You have been through three pregnancies and given birth to three children but you have only parented two. If she is referring to how you are parenting DC3 it is understandable that she refers to it as second.

That was my understanding of it as well. If I was talking to my friend about how parents are usually more relaxed with the second child than they are the first I would think of DC3 as the second child in terms of children you have parented.

That said, you have made it quite clear that you don't like it and therefore she should show some sensitivity and stop doing it. I don't think she was wrong for referring to how you parent your third child as your second child the first time, but the second you told her it upsets you she should have stopped.

I am really sorry for your loss

harry I am like your friend! my eldest is 6 so at school my dc2 should be 4 now, she passed away when dc3 was 10 days old, he's now 11 months. All new baby groups were bypassed unless people knew me, I couldn't handle people talking to me like I was a first time mum. op your mum is deeply insensitive and I would of thought the one person to recognise precisely how many dc you have....

To be honest, I think it would jar whether she said second or third because either would bring up the issue of the child you lost. Perhaps she is just not sure what's best to say and you need to tell her.

In the context, considering you didn't have a chance to parent your second baby, referring to your third wouldn't really make sense, and would still make you feel the loss each time she said it.

So basically YANBU but neither is she. It's just a tricky and sad issue. I'm sorry for you loss

just called her, told her that i've tired to talk to her about this at least five times, told her how painful and upsetting it is

she said I was just talking in general [we where actually talking about the fact d3 has been more ill than dc1]
and something how she doesn't have to think about what she says when she talks in general

so I said I've gone out on a limb here to tell you how I feel
this is not easy for me to do
as its difficult enough anyway
and your actually arguing with me over it

and she said ok I will try not to say that

I used examples on here and suggested saying to her if you find it too difficult to call dc third, why don't you just say youngest, or not your first
and she said she would try

then she said I know your hurting
and that she thinks about x every single day

the phone call went a bit silent
I started crying as soonas I bought up the situation

then she went ok I will await your text later beacuse i said i would text her to let her know about something else then she ended the call

now I'm all upset and crying in front of the other children

so difficult and painful
feel even more upset tbh,and a bit guilty all round, but something had to be said

To be honest i don't think she's doing it on purpose. She's just very hurtful in forgetting.

I think you need to train her like a dog, pull her up on it very harshly every time she does it. Every single time as strongly as you can. It must stab like a knife to her. Offer her an alternative so she can say "youngest" instead of "second"

"Y is the youngest not the second child. Our second child was X, she died. You were at her funeral remember?"

Sorry, didn't draft and see that she's being insensitive after you've asked.

Cross posts sorry

Well done fro bringing it up and tbh I would hold on to 'then she said I know your hurting
and that she thinks about x every single day' because that is what you need to hear.

Your Mother is still controlling things by ending the phone call.

If I were you I would put off that text and send it when it suits you.

FFS the OP is a parent to three children. Can you not see what a stab in the guts it is to say she has only 'parented' 2? It is the bereaved parent's feelings we need to consider, not other people's. And no parent who has lost a child is going to be more relaxed with any of their other children.

OP glad you were able to bring it up with her.

tell her that youve tried being nice, youve tried being firm, but that if she continues to make the same "mistake" again and again, then she can forget about a relationship with you.

Id probably add some swearing in there too

i wonder if she's my telling dad her version of events about how awful i am

or simply the facts

or perhaps she wont tell him at all

who knows...

yes it was a weird end to a weird phone call

i have tried to be nice, I've tried to be patient, I've tried to understand thigns from others point of view, now I've told her about this at least 6 times now

FFS the OP is a parent to three children. Can you not see what a stab in the guts it is to say she has only 'parented' 2? It is the bereaved parent's feelings we need to consider, not other people's. And no parent who has lost a child is going to be more relaxed with any of their other children.

I know a parent is not going to be more relaxed with any child after they have lost a child. It was just an example, albeit a poor one. I never once said that she was not a parent of 3 children.

I also said that the second op told her mother it was hurtful that she should have stopped. I said it was insensitive of her mother to not do so.

OP if anything I said offended you I sincerely apologise. I think your mother was being unreasonable and mean for not respecting your feelings I am not an arsehole and would never have meant to hurt you. I didn't explain my post very well but please understand that I think YANBU at all and once again, I am so sorry for your loss.

How about next time she does it in your own house, you stand up and ask her to leave - politely. Or if you're at hers, you go home. Maybe the message would get through.

Firstly, I am dreadfully sorry for your loss, I cannot even begin to imagine the pain and horror of your situation.

As for your DM, you ANBU, she needs to understand the DC2 was a child and will always and forever be your second child. You need a very frank and honest discussion with her.

Again, I am sorry.

xx

Hopefully she's just being awkward because she's embarrassed she's upset you. Some people are naturally defensive when they know they are in the wrong.

Oh OP I'm so sorry for your loss, and what a horrible situation for you to negotiate!

I have lost four of my seven pregnancies. When I lost my first my mother said "at least you know you can get pregnant". I just sobbed and sobbed. After the second she said it might have been deformed so it was "for the best" and I lost it a bit and said basically that I didn't need to hear that when I was still bleeding. A few weeks later I got a long letter detailing the birth and death of my brother, who died before I was born of anencephaly. She wasn't allowed to see or hold him, the Dr described him as "anencephalic monster" in her notes, there was no funeral or birth or death certificates. In her case she was so insensitive because of this massive wound she had never dealt with. She survived by pretending it had happened to someone else. The next time I went home she led me to the small climbing rose bed she had planted in honour of my lost babies. She really did care, she just couldn't handle my loss when it layered on top of hers.

This obviously may not be the case with your mother. Afterwards I felt I had an explanation though still kind of felt she should have known better.

She died before I managed to have a child who lived.

I have also had people say "oh xyz with a 2nd pregnancy" when it was my 6th pregnancy. Luckily nobody so close I felt bothered enough to correct them, except inside my head.

I also wonder if your mum feels she will upset you if she "reminds" you of your DC2? She should know you better, she is your mother afterall, but maybe she saw the birth of DC3 as being a ticket through your grief and feels she shouldn't refer to DC2 even in factual statements of birth order, because she will bring you back to that grief. I have had friends say to me that they don't want to mention my lost babies if I don't, even when it ends up in an awkward rewriting of my obstetric history in conversation, because they don't want to bring me down or something. I just explained to them that facts weren't going to hurt me more than they have and I prefer to stick to reality.

It sounds like for now you have done your best to educate your mother and honour your second born. Hopefully she will have a think and realise her role as gm should be one of love, celebration and remembering of your DC2, not forgetting and avoidance.

well i know she had two miscarriages in the first trimester
and i've also had two miscarriages

do i feel that's a totally totally different thing really
my worse mc was at 11 weeks and a teeny tiny baby came out.
but as horrible as that was, it was vv different to actually giving birth to a child that lived and breathed and died
very different for me

I would text her and say that I am taking you out, then I would take her to visit the graveyard and remind her!!!! I know how you feel a little, because I lost my first child at 14 months, nobody ever mentions her! People ask how many children I have, what do I say? xxxxx

TheAnswer She is being insensitive to repeatedly refer to two children instead of three, however I have some sympathy for her. You have been through three pregnancies and given birth to three children but you have only parented two

That's quite insensitive, the OP was a parent to her DC2, sadly for a short time but she was still parenting that child. I could understand what you were saying if you were referring to my early miscarriages when I didn't parent those children as they never got to birth but not about a child who was born. The very act of giving birth and holding a child is parenting that child.

feel a tiny bit calmer now

i do think its crass and insentive to do it in the first place, let alone continue when I've asked her to stop

at least I've sort of stuck my for myself

i do have a strong feeling this is going to happen again
and I'm trying to think how to handle it

YANBU. Unless your DM has memory loss or mental health problems, I find it hard to believe that she is incapable of remembering that this upsets you. More likely, she thinks (completely unreasonably) that you are making a fuss about nothing so she doesn't bother to remember. I feel for you - my DM does this all the time about various things and it's bad enough but - after the loss of a child, it must be unbearable. Like your DM, my DM is "never" wrong and it is hard to reason with this sort of person as, in her heart, she doesn't really believe that anyone else's viewpoint is valid if it differs from her own.

I think I would try the broken record technique. Every time she does it, repeat "Lucy was our second child, Anna is our 3rd". Get your DH and any sympathetic relatives to do the same.

I think the fact that you have pointed this out to her and she continues with it is very insensitive. My Sis lost her fourth baby in a late miscarriage (17 weeks). She buried the baby and as far as I am concerned she had 5 kids (she had another after him) but I am sure I have occassionally referred to her last baby as her fourth child not meaning anything by it. If it was pointed out to me I would never do it again. I think also the fact that your baby was alive, albeit only for a short period makes this even more insensitive.
I havent read to the end of the thread, but if you havent already you need to sit her down and tell her to cop on, I cant imagine how hurtful this is for you. And I am very sorry for your loss.

My eldest died at birth.
Meaning my middle child is dc2 and my youngest is dc3.

It kills me when my parents and in laws say they have 2 grandkids. Even if it is technically true.

And when my dad said that cos we had had another daughter that "we were over all that business"

My heart broke all over again.

Yanbu. and sorry for your loss xx