To think that when you've got a trail of people in your past who you've fallen out with, chances are your the one with the issue?

[JellyDiamonds]

I am referring to a specific person here. Doesn't speak to various family member due to a falling out, fair enough it happens. But this person has also fallen out with numerous friends over the years, has many acrimonious and broken relationships and has either walked out of or been sacked from every single job they've ever had.

This person has a real woe is me attitude, "it's not fair, everyone I meet turns on me", but the thing is not hard to see why. They are overbearing, bossy, they undermine people, take offence over the most ridiculous things, hold grudges etc. I've also witnessed some rather unpleasant behaviour regarding this person completely freezing someone else out for no other reason than the fact they dared to disagree on something. The other person was genuinely distraught over this and still is. But the protagonist in this story is playing the victim once again....

As someone who can count on one hand the number of people I've genuinely fallen out with in my 30 years on this earth and I'm going right back to childhood, and as someone who also can't be arsed with grudges, I think it's unlikely in this scenario that the other people are the ones to blame.

Apologies for being cryptic but I'm taking about someone specific here.

I'm not really that keen to 'give examples' as I'm fairly plenty enough exposed already. I guess the workplace is probably the best model of what I'm getting at, as there is a noticeable shift once someone (usually the alpha person of any group) has deemed someone a bit offensive/weird/whatever that the others start lessening their interaction with that person. Yes, that person is usually me and I accept that it may be my warped or skewed perception of the situation but that's my day to day reality.

As I mentioned above, I do think the 'victim', ie: me is often responsible for the schoolyard scorn/bullying and the workplace isolation by dint of being socially unaware or by already feeling defensive so the prickles come out.

Purple - have you considered a Mindfulness course?
It really helps to recognise your emotions, but not act inappropriately - it almost is an emotional "brake". It will help calm you down and be less critical of yourself too.

Hi Miggsie, yeah I balk at all those sort of CBT, Mind Gym and emotional brake type stuff (even though it's most likely what I need) because it feels patronising somehow. I can't really explain that but then I can't really explain a lot of my emotions hah hah

Many of these accounts do sound symptomatic of bpd.
It IS horribly difficult to be around.. Had my fair share personally! Also have worked professionally.

One other treatment is Dialectic behaviour therapy... The other is compassion focussed therapy . Both of had interesting outcomes for folk who struggle with these sort of issues.

psychcentral.com/lib/symptoms-of-borderline-personality-disorder/0001063

What lovely posts, Purple.

You wouldn't believe how well I recognise your aversion to therapy-type things. I had to hit a sort of rick bottom before I recognised a need, am now therapised to the top of my head and am daily grateful for it. (Gratitude is an emotion I didn't properly understand before all this, btw, so please don't assume you know what I mean )

To this: look at current bullying and wonder how much the victim brings toward themselves. Yes. I did! If I can over-simplify what was happening, there are two reasons: [1] My underlying opinion of myself was so poor, I unwittingly gave people 'hooks' by which bullies could bully me. This also caused sane folks to step back a little way. [2] Having been trained by my dad to withstand bullying, it felt almost like my mission in life. Therefore I stood firm to engage with bullies, where saner folks turn round and walk.

I feel you & I are very different in nature, but am trying to show that things like CBT, mindfulness and talking therapies can have immense value. When it comes down to it, they're learning experiences and a good therapist is a good teacher.

Wishing you the best.

Rick bottom? Who's Rick?

Yes I know people just like you describe and they are exhausting and draining to be around.

Invariably they are very immature and take a childish pleasure in the drama and the attention. Emotionally they never progressed from being the silly spiteful 13 year olds we all knew at school.

If these sort of people ever cross my path I can sniff them out within minutes and I just don't give them house room. I refuse to get ensnared in their silly little pantomimes or feed their craving for stress and tantrums.

Thank you Lucy, I do really relate to your post. The low opinion of self, the feeling trained by another to withstand bullying and the fearless battle in the face of it which gets me nowhere etc.

I promise not to hit Rick Bottom (or anyone else) on my journey .

Purple, I asked if you had an example of the 'playground like pack' because I wondered if, on reading an example, I would see a pack or an oversensitivity on your part.

"there is a noticeable shift once someone (usually the alpha person of any group) has deemed someone a bit offensive/weird/whatever that the others start lessening their interaction with that person."

Possibly a pack, but probably not. You talk of a alpha 'deeming' someone a bit offensive. Maybe they were genuinely offended by something you said/did to them? 'Deeming' denies them the right to feel what they feel IYSWIM. 'The others' might have been similarly offended, but you dismiss them entirely as behaving alone, just see them as following the alpha.

"Yes, that person is usually me and I accept that it may be my warped or skewed perception of the situation but that's my day to day reality."
I think you may be suffering more from your perception than at the hands of others. That must be a very hard place to be as it is easier to escape others than it is to escape yourself.

"As I mentioned above, I do think the 'victim', ie: me is often responsible for the schoolyard scorn/bullying and the workplace isolation by dint of being socially unaware or by already feeling defensive so the prickles come out."
Perhaps if you stopped regarding yourself as a victim, but rather on the end of retaliation? A victim is blameless, you are aware you have had a hand in the situations that arise around you. I hope your awareness will help lead you to a way to change how you behave towards/react to other people. Best wishes.

Yes, I thought that was what you were wondering and it's why I chose not to offer one up because, as mentioned, I'm already feeling a tad over exposed in this thread ;-)

I think you've just reworded my own posts and agreed me with me there but thanks, I hope it helps change the way I react too.

Purple, do you see other people as being like yourself, entitled to have feelings and reactions and to feel hurt? To have a life outside their interactions with you that affect their feelings and reactions?

Genuine question, not having a go.

Yes of course. I'm not sure what, from all my posts, gives you the impression that I don't.

I'm less able to put that awareness into play when interacting with strangers however. I'm faster to temper than I am to empathy with them, if that's what you're asking?

I think that often if someone has a long history of falling out with family and in-laws and friends then there's obviously a pattern.

In my experience the person usually has quite a challenging, or abrasive personality which makes it easier for another person to take against them. And then the rest if their 'pack' are actually quite relieved to cut contact. Not because they are sheep but because they never warmed to the 'victim' in the first place.

I'm not sure what I'm asking . You've described reacting to others in a way I find hard to imagine myself reacting, and I'm trying to understand how it comes about that way for you. Your first post showed a real awareness of how your reactions to others impacted your life, and I'm struggling to get my head round, as you put it, your inability to put that awareness into play.

Ooh, just read that back, it could read that I don't believe you. I do believe what you've written, and I'm grateful for you offering your perspective on a thread that has been difficult reading for you. I am basically nosey, and value other people's perspectives, hence asking so many questions throughout the whole of Mumsnet .

Ah okay, your direct questions were setting off some kind of protective instinct in me (they read as hostile which is why I started feeling 'exposed') and I could feel myself second guessing what your questions were leading to. I guess that element of paranoia is a good insight as to what goes on in my mind at times. I don't understand group politics and am lousy at social dynamics so often believe there is an agenda other than face value at work.

Good grief I am absolutely name changing after this.

Just to add, as I said in my earlier post, the person I mentioned dropped me, not vice versa. She had a long long history of falling out with pretty much everyone, family, friends, colleagues, boyfriends, housemates, but she and I always got on. I don't know why she stopped contact, it happened abruptly, and I guess I will never know why.

I would still be happy if she got back in touch, I've tried but she obviously doesn't want to.

The person in my OP isn't a loner really. She always seems to have a gaggle of adoring people around her. She is very charismatically charming and outwardly warm and friendly and will do anything to "help you out" until someone upsets her, usually by either disagreeing with her or challenging her authority in some way. Then she turns disturbingly vitriolic. Freezing them out, but making sure that everyone else knows about all of the terrible things they've done to upset her. Ensuring that she always looks like the victim and the person who has slighted her is the nasty evil bully.

I watch as one by one people start to figure out what she's like and either challenge her, resulting in the hysterical tantrums and bullying accusations, or they just gradually try to distance themselves whilst still remaining civil. This is what I'm trying to do I think. She seems to be surrounded by people who she can either use for her own gain in one way or another, or people with personal problems so she can help them out and then accuse of them of being awful and ungrateful when they don't sing to her tune.

I've genuinely never met anyone else like it.

She sounds like she might have some sort of personality disorder JellyDiamonds. At the very least she sounds like a very unhappy person who isn't in control of herself, certainly not in any positive way anyway

Yes, I think a personality disorder is a pretty strong possibility. I can't imagine how else someone can be so oblivious to the fact they are the problem and not others?

You do have to be careful though as you can't assume you really know the full story.

I am very private - I really don't share ins and outs with anyone plus I don't have a good relationship with immediate family.

I fell out with a friend about 11yrs ago - well more that I just saw some behaviour in her that was very uncharitable and slowly pulled away - we still pass the time of day in fact, no row, etc.... Anyway SIX years later another friend and I had a disagreement which we sorted out and she expressed surprise at me pursuing her to resolve it.... Her reasoning was that 'my history' was to walk away from friendships and she quoted this ex-friend and the fact I don't have a relationship with my immediate family.

At this point I calmly explained that I have never shared what had happened with the ex-friend as they were friends so didn't want to bitch and it wasn't relevant. I also gave her an insight as to why I didn't have the relationship she has with her family.

She was shocked - she had just assumed and had 'met people like it before'. What was very, very interesting was she had (still has) a large number of superficial friendships and her close friends have passed through her life in cycles dependent upon where she is in her life I think.
What was more interesting was ex-friend meets the description in the OP apart from she has a close family.

Neither friend or ex-friend could see any issues in there own friendship patterns and actually it's a very common pattern in this neck of the woods - multiple superficial friends, complex webs of relationships and people / families that have reputations. I stood outside of it and it was obvious because I didnt grow up here and my lack of close family.

Attitudes like this make me sad. I am used to it now and just go with it (have a close circle of friends) but have watched it happen to someone else recently. Someone I admire greatly actually and I know them well known to know it's a reputation that has not been earned. Rumours are rife, they are in fact bordering on slanderous and it's all jealousy. It has been handled incredibly well but to no avail - they will move away - that I am certain and don't blame them.

I can think of a handful of people like this. The trouble is, they move in and out of people's lives after a couple of years that unless you have known them for at least 10 years or so, you would just think they were odd and wouldn't spot it.

They all seem to be characterised by failing to hold down a full time job (despite having no dependents), taking up hobbies and doing them quite obsessively for a few years then dropping them for a new one, and being quite charistmatic and able to attract new friends quite easily, whom they seem to use for a bit and then drop.

There is one in particular who is very handsome, talented, intelligent and comes from a lovely family background with expensive education, yet his life is like watching a car crash slowly unfold. He insists he is quite happy and when you try and ask him why for instance he gave up his job or didn't visit a sick friend in hospital or something, he just says something like "I didn't want to". Like a teenager.

There is another who has left every job after a dispute yet walked into a better paid one, has had a horde of lovely girlfriends who have all left him and who tends towards stalking his exes.

The OP and the others who had similar experiences were complaining that the other person they were complaining about lacked emotional intelligence - tolerance, empathy, etc.

However, reading through this it seems to me that the OP and the others who had similar experiences had a lack of emotional intelligence to a greater or lesser extent too, as they were lacking tolerance and empathy with the "difficult" person and also not handling him/her very well, or not bouncing back from the rejection well.

I would say most people could relate to the both the "dumped" and "dumpee" from time to time. Having said this, the people I do know who handle people things pretty well are unlikely to be slating others on this thread.

mom

You said what I was thinking much better than I did....