To ask you what you think children need

[Walktwoworlds]

It's so difficult to know how to word this thread.

What - for YOU - are the things you feel you must provide for a child?

Own room? Savings account for flat deposit / university / car? Holidays? Music / riding / dancing lessons? Private school?

I just don't know ... I worry a lot about being skint poor and not being able to ever give a child the childhood I had if that makes sense and feels unfair

OP my parents had enough money when we were growing up that we had the materials things that we needed but what we didn't have was time with them. I spent most of my childhood on my own in my bedroom entertaining myself and keeping out of the way whilst my parents worked.
Time is what matters rather than money.

SnowWhiteAteTheApple I'm not sure what you're insinuating but I did not go to private school, have music lessons or go skiing and yet I did very well academically? Also OP never said she didn't work, did she?

Frankly I would rather have a well adjusted, secure child who had been loved well but not had many material things, than some high flying oxbridge grad city career person who had never spent any time with their parents?!

There are many factors that drive a child's achievement and they are not to do with material things!

My big two in terms of needs are boundaries and stability.

Matchstick, I wasn't insinuating anything. I never mentioned private school or skiing lessons or that the OP didn't work

Somebody posted that if all children need is love and food then why do people feel the need to work all hours? I answered children obviously need more as those raised in non working households are targeted by the government as they fair less well in life academically hence the recent push to "narrow the gap".

Basics

• stability, love, time, boundaries, food, clothes, shelter

Non-tangible extras

• confidence to be themselves, work ethic, aspirations
• exposure to life outside their cocoon

Material Things which aren't needs, but good if possible

• trips out / holidays
• financial support while studying so can focus on studies
• help into driving or onto housing ladder if possible

But epic there is an assumption there similar to the one over the page that poorer parents don't work all hours. We do, because we have to. When you earn less than £7 an hour you have to do a LOT of hours to make the sums add up, you know?

Love, feeling that through whatever adversity they will have someone there for them providing some kind of stability, safety (from violence, war, criminals etc)
Food, water, sanitation - knowledge of what it is to be healthy.
A good role model (so even if a parent is very poor or facing difficulties the child is seeing that they are working through that and seeking help and are a good citizen trying to work hard and do what they can), role model to help child to understand the value of education, role model to help child to understand they should respect themselves (do their best to give themselves the best chances)
To have chances for fun, creativity, sport and play.
To always have opportunity to speak their mind, develop conservation skills.
Access to the best education possible with the end goal of choices (E.g. can go to university if they want to, can get a job in the field they want to)

I realise some of this is idealistic and there are huge barriers out there. It is fairly close to the UN Children's Rights document though.

What about your children, zebra is that all they need?

I'm wondering not about children worldwide in a general sense but your own? What would you want to have yourself before having them?

My brother would rather give his children money than spend time with them and his wife is the same. They are all designer geared up to the eyeballs and go on flash holidays etc ( which must be bragged about on FB). We have money but we prefer to invest it so that if the children need help with their first house or uni etc then we can help them. Flash holidays, posh clothes ( which are worn once and then passed onto us - result!) and the latest phones and gadgets might seem good now but once the money is gone it's gone ( DB doesn't believe in saving) but we have money that will help the children to have an easier ride later when they are starting their careers/families and money is usually tightest. For example if either DC decided they wanted to be a sahp later in life we could make it easier for them by paying off their mortgage or pay the deposit on a bigger house if they expand their family. This is what I want to be able to give my children.
If they don't need our help then great but I would the to see them really struggle and be unable to do Anything about it.

Time and boundaries are the two underpinning things that I think are most important.

Swimming lessons are also, for me, non-negotiable if money permits. We are an island nation after all.

But time is the biggy for me. My mum's presence and her availability to listen, chat and work through our problems when we were little without feeling rushed is something I try to do in my own family now.

Money certainly helps, for whatever your priorities are, but we have chosen to take quite a big pay cut in order to have more time to spend as a family.

I try to focus on stuff that equips them with life skills so we do find the money for swimming lessons and will do the same for driving lessons. I don't regard ski-ing as a life skill although DH would - and the money wouldn't go that far anyway. If we lived in a snowy country, it would count.

Brownies comes next as it helps them to have a group of friends outside of school. We don't always finance every single activity or trip but we try to where we can.

After that, it is about prioritising stuff that either enriches their life or helps them pursue a genuine interest or talent. But the pot for it is very limited so the kids know that if they want to try something new, the previous activity has to stop (i.e., gym or dance or a sport that requires subs and kit). And neither of them is yet to exhibit any signs of giftedness so that's a relief.

Long term we save what we can (very little) and the gp's contribute when they can to savings that will either support university education or some other qualification when they are older. Beyond that, house deposits etc.. they will be on their own.

I think reading between the lines here the OP is on a low income despite working very hard and is questioning whether to have a baby or not because of this.

Here is the thing: I think when we all plan to be parents we try to imagine what we will be like and it's always impossible. In the abstract, we think how awful or I couldn't cope. We also tend to recall back to our own childhood even if we know this isn't the be-all and end-all: my childhood wasn't a happy one at all but I still worry because my DCs childhood deviates from it as it is what I know!

You have them and you love them, and they love you, and let me assure you of one thing - there's a HUGE margin for error! The great thing about these children is they just keep coming back and loving you anyway, even when they're stroppy, rude, mouthy and arsey!

But in terms of what I want - here goes:

I wanted my children to grow up in a detached farmhouse with acres of land, a woody area to play in and a pond. Big kitchen to bake and cook in. Big coal fire to cuddle up into in the winter. Own rooms decorated in pastels for the girl and grey/duck egg blue for the boy ( yes Mumsnet you can kill me later!)

I wanted my children to go to village schools, to have stable friendships, to have fun and enjoy school without worrying about pressure. Like you I wanted private to be there as an option without resorting to it necessarily. I wanted them to not be bullied. I wanted them to look forward to Monday.

I wanted them to have a sibling to have fun with and get on with. I had a brother but it was a fraught relationship.

I wanted them to enjoy university free of debt, to learn to drive, to be able to buy a flat or house.

But you know - if I can't do any of that, or you can't, honestly, seriously, don't stress about it! They only notice monetary matters from ten years up I'd say and a lot can happen in ten years!

walktwo I work part time and I earn £8 an hour so I know. I used to work all hours and earned about as much in an hour as I now earn in a day, I opted to have more time with my children instead and they prefer it that way.

What they need and what they want are two different things.

What all children need at all age is security, continuity, love and tenderness.

However, as children get older they become more vocal on what they want - and they believe 'need'. The pressure to provide more material things grows, especially once they are at secondary school.

As a parent we all say no regularly, but it is very difficult when it is your child who is doing without the material things.

I'm not saying that is 'right', but I am facing the reality of living in today's world.

I have a friend who is a single mum, working long hours on a minimum wage in physically draining elderly care work. She has 2 children and they regularly go without heating and food, let alone clothes and electronics or holidays.

I know they sit huddled together under a duvet in the lounge as there is no heat on. I know that her daughter has only 1 pair of black shoes that has to 'do' for everything. Regularly those shoes have the soles flapping off for a while before another is bought.

The children had no winter coats 2 seasons ago. I dropped off 2 coats for them that I picked up on ebay and the daughter is still squeezing into hers 2 years later.

Her daughter is now 12 and is beginning to complain and kick off at her very hard working and struggling mum that her life is under privaliged, especially in comparison to her friends. She wants a phone like her friends. She wants access to the internet like her friends. She wants to be able to wear the latest labels like her friends. She wants to go on holiday like her friends.

My friend/her mum said that it is only now that she feels she is letting her children down because the pressure as a tween or teenager is 'to have' and she just can't afford it.

That'll be me, yes, cause I can't afford to work part time - I don't mean to be disrespectful epic but if you can afford to work part time you don't know! How can you?

To answer your question..My parents were financially quite well off and I had a miserable childhood..

My Ds has been raised with much less money and I like to think happy most of the time.

The less money the more you need to think about your choices..

For me important things are swimming lessons, been able to join in school activities, the been able to pay for activities rather than the stuff as it was.

Yesitsme

Does your friend claim the tax credits she is entitled to?

No one, who is working hard, should be living like that.

Walk I rely on the tax credits. My job is part time, it was full time but with a variable contract and my hours were reduced, I've not been able to find another job.

love, a listening ear, confidence, self-esteem, empathy, food, toys, a roof.

Talking in material terms only I want my children to have -

Their own bedroom (doesn't have to be big)
A comfortable clean home
Swimming lessons
Dance for DD if she likes it (she's only two)
Clean, well fitting clothes that they like.
Music lessons
Holidays - some abroad.
Money towards a house deposit
Money to help with uni costs
Driving lessons

There's no way I'll be able to afford a full deposit for each or to pay all uni costs but it's certainly my intention to try.

All our holidays are carefully budgeted for and we can only afford UK ones right now but I do want to be able to take them to Europe when they're bigger.

I had most of the above (not house deposit - but my folks did give DH and I 3k to get married) and my parents didn't earn a lot. They're lovely parents in every way - I always feel important and loved. I want to be just like them really.

Looking at 'optional extras' I'd like to provide:

-own bedrooms/space

• learning to swim
• holidays
• nice clothes
• chance to take part in after school activities
• able to provide 'treats' without counting every penny.

I'm not concerned about paying for uni, car/ lessons, house deposits.

To me those are things my DC should be able to provide for themselves, just as me and DH have done. That's what we are all aiming for right? That our adult children will be able to support themselves?

I've recently started a new job which means I spend time reading social worker case files. It is eye opening to say the least. It can be very distressing to see what some children go through.

I think the most important things are;

Love, warmth and affection;
Appropriate, safe, clean, warm housing;
Boundaries, consistent parenting;
Decent food;
Clothes that fit, are clean and warm;
Friends and social activities (just being played with, read to, given time and attention).
Education (and a parent who will get them to school on time and work together with/be supportive of the school).

As lovely as it is to go on nice holidays and pay for uni/cars/private schools - these aren't necessities. Even parents who manage these things don't always get the basics right.

IMHO one of the most important things to give children is your time. Time spent with them is not just enjoyable, they can learn from you, and you can learn from them, and they know you will be there if you are needed, even when they are being rediculous stroppy teenagers.

I think that life is long and we don't have to experience everything as children. The one thing it is difficult to do without is unconditional love.