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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Oh I'm lucky that I don't need to work, financially"

927 replies

TerraNovice · 15/02/2015 11:35

I'm going back to work next month and while chatting with other mums about it I've come across the above phrase a few times. Perhaps IBU but it sounds insufferably smug to be - so they married guys with money, so what? There's nothing wrong with saying you're a SAHM so why add the caveat that you've got a rich husband?

OP posts:
andsmile · 16/02/2015 11:37

I've done all three combos - FT/PT/SAH 50/50 with DH role swapped - the rightway does not exists. Only yourway

muminhants · 16/02/2015 12:02

Ultimately it's about having choices and not still living in the 1950s where dh goes to work, comes home to tea on the table and freshly bathed and ready-for-bed kids attended to by fragrant wifey but wifey had no choice.

Nobody ever judges dads for the choices they make.

And while it is usually mums who judge other mums, read a BBC have your say sometime and see some of the comments made by men on there about working mums - probably because they want the vision of the 1950s and not to have to look after their kids or do any housework.

But you can't win - if you go out to work you are a grasping career mum, if you live on benefits you're a scrounger, if you stay at home you are smug.

Sigh.

BlastedChickens · 16/02/2015 12:07

Nobody every judges dads for the choices they make

^^ this!

BlastedChickens · 16/02/2015 12:07

** without the spelling mistake!

Stinkle · 16/02/2015 12:14

But you can't win - if you go out to work you are a grasping career mum, if you live on benefits you're a scrounger, if you stay at home you are smug.

Totally agree!

When I worked I was judged for not being there for my children, now I'm at home I'm judged for being work shy and sponging off my husband. DH and I foster and I'm judged for that too (It's a good way of getting paid to sit at home and look after my own kids). DH and I swapped for a while too.

Most of these comments have been IRL, especially now both my children are in school

JillyR2015 · 16/02/2015 12:14

Indeed. The issue is always would you ask a man XYZ.
It is a bit like Miriam Gonzalez (lawyer) said recently - all women want is what men have.

TheChandler · 16/02/2015 12:17

muminhants Nobody ever judges dads for the choices they make

Well, I do. I'm sorry, but I don't really respect anyone, of whatever gender, who makes no effort at all in life to obtain some sort of paid skill or to work at all, and who lives like a leech off someone else, or who sets out to get a rich partner in order not to work. No-one's stopping them doing it, its a free country, but just don't expect people who do actually go to the trouble of going out to work to support themselves or their families to actually respect them. I think turning this into a woman-bashing thing is completely disingenuous.

And its certainly not women that do that (although they seem to get all the criticism). I know a number of men who earn far less than their partners, or don't work or work peripatetically, but who still live in rather nice houses their partners bought without or barely contributing, who can't wait to be SAHDs, even when their girlfriends don't seem particularly keen.

Nolim · 16/02/2015 12:22

Men dont get judged for working but i have no idea if they get judged for staying at home as unfortunatelly i dont know any sahd irl.

Any sahd around to comment?

Stinkle · 16/02/2015 12:24

Nobody every judges dads for the choices they make

Actually, when DH and I swapped for a while, he was very much judged for it.

Stinkle · 16/02/2015 12:30

Just to add, when DH and I swapped, he was actually working. He worked from home, very flexibly so he could do school runs, school plays, walk the dog, most of the house stuff.

But to the outside world, he looked like a SAHD and got all sorts of crap about it

FragileBrittleStar · 16/02/2015 12:38

DP gets judged the whole time for being a SAHD- especially on mumsnet - cocklodger anyone?
I do think its smug- especially those posters who followed it up with "I made the rights decisions" "I am good with money" etc. Absent being able to manage on no wage - which i'm sure some of the posters can- part of the choice is having someone else there to rely on as well.
I've seen it in reverse -"my wife doesn't need to work" is a common line.

I do question (sometime directly) when, absent having small children, one partner isn't working - there are many valid and varied reasons tbh but it is a situation which raises the question for me
(to anyone interested: DP is a sahp as 1) it is easier given my hours versus school hours 2) he is a lazy sod 3) i can afford it because I have made fantastic decisions- unfortunately not one to find a DP who would earn enough so I could retire)

Meechimoo · 16/02/2015 12:41

The Chandler, you freely admit that you judge people who choose not to work.
But I bet you'd be pretty fucked off if someone judged you for working and asked you why you'd bothered having kids to then outsource them to a stranger. See, just as judgey and inflammatory as the words you used. Not nice, is it?

cattypussclaw · 16/02/2015 12:43

I'm not actually that bothered whether you respect me or not, TheChandler. You may consider that I "leech" off my husband but he sees it rather differently. I worked for over 20 years and gave up nine years ago when I had my daughter. My husband works full time, I stay at home. We are happy with this arrangement and it doesn't affect anyone else at all, nor is it anyone's business. I will return to work if and when I want to (and I do want to), thank you.

Meechimoo · 16/02/2015 12:47

and the chandler instructs us that it's 'disingenuous' to turn this into a woman bashing thing. Whilst she goes about woman bashing! Grin

pbwer · 16/02/2015 12:49

wow. just wow.

My wife (currently) doesn't work as she is staying at home looking after our daughter. Once our kid is in school then she will probably look into going back into work. We chose this so that we didn't both miss out on our daughters early years.

We can (just about) survive on my salary but this has meant drastically checking our finances and having to think about any purchases that we do make.

It horrifies me that she would have to justify herself to others for the sacrifices that we have made as a family for the benefit of our child.

BlastedChickens · 16/02/2015 12:55

TheChandler I agree that no one should "leech" off anyone else, however, I feel that we're talking about a particular decision to be a SAHM or a WM and I am sure that you don't think that anyone staying at home with their children is "leeching" off their partner.

I object purely to anyone judging a woman (or a man for that matter) for making either decision and then judging them again when they explain why they made that decision.

On the SAHD point, whilst I believe that generally men are less likely to be judged because of their parenting choices and by this I suppose I mean because they are never challenged on their decision to continue to work, I do think SAHD's get judged harshly because it doesn't fit the traditional stereotype bullshit. I know a SAHD, his wife earns a big salary and is a high flyer. They had a lot of criticism, some falling on her for abandoning her children to pursue a career and some falling on him for being a slacker and letting his wife keep him. Hmm

I'm with andsmile..there is no rightway, just yourway

TheChandler · 16/02/2015 12:55

I don't know about this "judging" terminology - that implies I'm still in the process of making a decision. I don't respect people who have done nothing with their lives. I find it quite easy to distinguish genuine people and non-genuine people, as in the latter like to pretend they are something they are not, more helpless than they actually are, in order to get out of doing stuff for themselves. That sort of person I really do not respect.

If you have never bothered learning a skill or obtaining paid employment in your life but instead have devoted it to finding a partner much richer than yourself, then I wouldn't respect you. People who have worked before having children or reduced their hours - completely different.

As I said, I know quite a few examples of the former - all living in rather good circumstances due to no effort on their part. I actually know two men who married into wealthy farming families, cheated, got divorced and ended up with farms of their own despite never having had to go out into the real world and get a job. I know people, both men and women, who have done degrees and then never worked, but moved in with someone who has a nice house. My neighbour is a weasly little man, who lives in a million pound house in the country, despite having a sketchy at best employment record. His wife inherited a lot of money from her parents. She's a lovely person. He's a sneaky two-faced conniving git. In a moment of weakness, she admitted to me that she hadn't put the house into joint names as he wanted. I think she is beginning to see through him.

I think the lack of a proper period of paid employment at some stage in their history is a bit telling tbh. Its not that I quiz people on it, its just that once you get to know people, you like to talk about your life experiences, and for most people, that involves work. Unless you born into great wealth.

Its certainly not just women that are golddigers. They just get all the negative publicity. There are some though, its true. Its human nature. But they are not always the ones you would think they would be - the model types, the glamorous ones.

minipie · 16/02/2015 13:05

I completely agree that WOHMs and SAHMs shouldn't judge each others' choices. Horses for courses and all that.

My issue with the statement "I'm lucky enough not to have to work" is that it does imply a judgment. It implies that being a SAHM is obviously preferable to being a WOHM, if you have the choice.

I don't feel that way. I choose to work despite financially not needing to. So if someone says to me "I'm lucky enough not to have to work" I feel that they are implicitly saying to me that I have made the wrong choice.

Of course what they may mean is "I am lucky enough to have the choice to work or not". But if that's what you mean, then say that! That's what I would say.

Cobain · 16/02/2015 13:07

I have been judged within the first five minutes of meeting someone for being a SAHM, I cannot be arsed to point out that although I am not working I have a private income, that I have been the carer for both my terminally ill parents and have a severely disabled son and when he is at school I volunteer to take the elderly and vulnerable to hospital and doctors appointments. But yet I am worthless to some people in society as I am not in paid employment. Let them judge.

JillyR2015 · 16/02/2015 13:14

To say lucky enough to work is judging. It is suggesting being a say at home mother is better (it's not, it's worse for everyone but that's a different topic). So not only is it judging but it is also wrong.

BrendaBlackhead · 16/02/2015 13:17

I have increasingly noticed that the "box" one has to tick for this and that has no "housewife" or "SAHP" option, but "Economically Inactive".

I keep bleating to dh how I find this offensive. I can't even really articulate why I infer an insult from the term. It seems there's a moving of the goalposts in that when I started being a SAHM it was a perfectly valid thing to do and now it's somehow shameful and a scourge on society.

BlastedChickens · 16/02/2015 13:20

I disagree minipie and Jilly
I think the statement acknowledges that not every one has a choice. Someone up thread said we all have a choice, even if that is to go on benefits...sorry, that's not a choice for me or the vast majority of people that I know.

I don't think the statement per se is smug, if the person using it is...then the issue is with them not the words.

RufusTheReindeer · 16/02/2015 13:28

Nicely put blasted

bigbluestars · 16/02/2015 13:28

"(it's not, it's worse for everyone " really jilly?

TheChandler · 16/02/2015 13:35

And what is this judging thing anyway? Is someone on trial? Or are people judged to be judging by some subjective, mysteriously imposed standard? And by whom?

If I want to not respect people for living like leeches off others, I will do so. There are no consequences for them of this; its simply that I personally decide they are a certain type of person. Or to put it more simply, as I said to one person recently, who described what they have done in glowing tones (they obviously thought I would be impressed by their non-achievements), "have you ever had a job?" (the answer was no). Whether its living off their parents or off a partner, the fact remains that they don't financially support themselves.

I find it hard to believe that other people don't think the same of people who have never worked at all in their lives for no very good reason (i.e. not illness, disability, care responsibilities, etc).

Its not even an argument against SAHMS/SAHDs - plenty of SAHMS have had very fulfilled working lives before children, and may well do so again.

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