unclean house

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At the weekend I travelled to visit my DSis and her 5mo DD. I have my own 7mo DD but she wasn't with me for this weekend. She lives a 4 hour drive from me so I don't see her that often especially now we both have babies.

DSis house is, to put it lightly, an absolute tip. Clothes, used dishes (some mouldy), rubbish/used nappies, baby toys and just "things" lying everywhere. The dishes clearly haven't been done for a few weeks, there is no clear surface space in the kitchen and you can barely see the carpet in all of the rooms. On the kitchen window there were a lot of dead fruit flies. Herself and her DH "wash when needed" eg. 2 bowls and 2 mugs in the morning. I moved 6 black bin bags (of rubbish) from her utility room to the garden bin when I arrived. We ended up with take out for the 3 nights I was there as washing up enough to make a proper meal would have been too much hassle. I think they have take out the majority of the time. The fridge will filled with out of date food. Her DH works from home and his "office" space was the only semi-organised room in the house. The 2 spare bedrooms are filled to bursting with useless junk. Dsis and Dbil did not have one item hanging up in there wardrobe (all clothes are on the floor or piled up on the dining table) Her DD is well looked after I've no doubt about that (bathed, clean clothes, well fed etc) but I'm just not sure it's safe for her to be living amongst this. They have stopped sterilising her bottles (I don't sterilise my DDs anymore but I'm so worried about the cleanliness of the kitchen).

DSis has always been messy, I thought she would change for her DD sake but apparently not. Having my own baby I completely understand how hard it is to keep on top of everything so part of me is thinking don't say something but the other part of me thinks she has to change as it's just not fair. She has a large home (5 bed/3 bath) compared to my small flat. Her DH doesn't seem bothered about the mess and I'd say they are both 50/50 equal in the (little) housework they do.

She has asked me to come down next month for a week with DD this time but I honestly don't think my crawling baby would be safe in her house. I don't mind staying there myself, she is so welcoming and I don't mind the mess but DD is at that stage where she is getting into everything and puts everything into her mouth!

Would I be unreasonable to say something / what should I say if I do? She would be mortified I'm sure. Or should I presume she realises she needs to tidy up and will do so before we arrive?

If I am being completely unreasonable please let me know. She's the only person I know who lives like this though. Her and her DH are happy.

She's your sister and it seems you have a nice relationship. I'd think carefully if you're not taking on more than you can chew.
Perhaps have a chat about her house, ask her if she needs a hand with it all and assure her of your wilingness to help clear it out. If she says butt out, tell her it's fine but you can't spend a week there with a baby.

Why didnt you just knuckle down and clean it? She may well be overwhelmed by it all and a new baby

As the messy sister of someone who tries to live in a show house. My advice would be if you do say something definitely be prepared to step up and help as well. My sister makes lots of comments, snide digs but never offers anything practical. Her husband has now joined in and I dread them coming to visit. Even if it's clean and tidy now I still get digs and comments.

I have suffered with depression so it did take a huge effort to battle the mess and wasn't a priority.

Naturally messy people can struggle once a baby comes - I'm like that and when DS1 was born my mum helped me get into a cleaning routine which I've kept to ever since. She helped me get the house clean, and then I worked out what I needed to do and when. If it helps, this is our routine:

• every night DH empties the dishwasher, cleans down the kitchen and makes sure there's space in the bin for the next day's rubbish
• every day I do a load of washing
• once a week I clean the bathroom
• once a week I Hoover the full house; I also Hoover the sitting room in between times if it looks really bad
• at least once a week we empty all the bins in the house
• once a fortnight I change everyone's bed linen

This is absolutely the bare minimum, but it's the most we can do with a toddler and baby and with the long hours DH works.
Could you offer to help her establish a routine?

this sounds above and beyond being naturally messy, or things being a bit chaotic with a small baby. It's great that the baby is looked after but she's only wee and right now her world is small. It's going to get bigger and surely it's up to her parents to ensure it's safe, otherwise that's neglect? What about when she starts to wean? The bay starts crawling? Her environment isn't safe. Yes, the DSis and her DH might be happy with it, but it's not just them living in it.

I think your idea of getting the babies out of the way and helping her have a blitz over a weekend is a great idea. Once it gets to a point it must be so hard to decide how or where to start - a friendly, non-judgmental helping hand surely could help?

OP says her sister has always been very messy. Is this level of squalor new, though? If they live in your hometown then presumably lots of friends and family will be sharing your concerns?

I would mention it to your parents and see if they've already said something. Problem is that we all know what needs to be done but it doesn't sound as if the OPs sister and bil would maintain the place after the big clean up.

It sounds grim. I wouldn't want to stay there at all tbh let alone with a baby. If you tell her the truth she cannot be surprised, maybe upset but it will not be something she is unaware of.

Hang on, why are we forgetting about sister's DH here? He works from home, so presumably has more free time then most full-time workers (I WFH myself) so he can surely find the time to take out a few bags of rubbish and do a bit of washing-up/tidying every day. Sis is obviously pre-occupied with the baby, but there's absolutely no reason that I can see that the DH can't take ver the majority of housework in the meantime. Or are we letting him off just because he's a man and so the housework or lack thereof is obviously the wife's responsibility?

She is your sister if you are close you could say something it isn't as if she is a friend or neighbour just say look sister your house is a tip/mess do you needca hand to clean up the baby will be crawling soon it isn't safe. She will either say yes thanks or no I am fine. Do your parents visit her do they not say anything?

I don't understand not being able to discuss this with your sister. If it was me or my sister, we'd say as soon as we walked in "what the hells going on?! Let's get this sorted".

My house would definitely be like that if my cleaner didn't come most days. As it is, bathrooms, kitchen work surfaces and clothes are the priority, washing up ( eventually) gets done (usually when we have no more clean plates) but much of the house is total chaos.

I grew up in a house similar. My mum would untidy as quick as we tidied

She wouldn't let anything be thrown out (though I think her age/childhood has alot to do with it, rationing and 'making do' was key)

I managed to aquire the jobs of cooking and cleaning as a teenager (younger probably) started off as "I think I'll cook/clean up/wash up" and quickly became 'my' job.

If we asked Mum what she wanted for birthday/Mothers Day/ Christmas , it was "a tidy house" like it was our fault.
She would dismantle things, empty cupboards and not put them away,
If I put aside clothes to get rid of, they'd end up in the corner of my room "someone at the church will have them"
You could tell when she made a sandwich-bread packet ripped open, crumbs everywhere, knife left out.

Some people you cannot help, sad but true,

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am going to phone tonight and make the arrangements to go down for the week. I think I'm going to say something along the lines of "while I'm down I thought mum and dad could watch my DD one of the nights and I could help get the place sorted out if you'd like?"

I would never want her DD to not want to invite friends back etc like some of the posters. My mum and dad have probably said to her about it but again I suspect in a "jokey" way that she's not taken seriously.

Can you stay at your parents house and visit your sister?

I would simply say that "It would be lovely to see you again, I had a great weekend and it was really nice to catch up with all the friends and family. It is a bit difficult to stay with you though, as X[dd] is starting to crawl and put everything in her mouth, and I will need to prepare weaning meals in your kitchen which basically means that everywhere needs to be a fair bit cleaner and tidier. I'm a bit concerned that you and X [her DH] are a bit overwhelmed generally with the house. I know I can be a bit uptight but I am genuinely concerned about the three of you but especially DN and I would like to come up and help to sort out the house if you would like me too.

When I was a kid a friend's house was like this, the place was always a tip and smelled horribly musty. I got an upset stomach twice after eating meals her mum made so YANBU to be concerned. It's a very tricky subject though. If you do decide to say something then tread extremely carefully... It may be easier to just avoid visiting and in time who knows, she may get the hint!

OP, I think it's great that you're willing to go and spend time there and help.

My concern is that there are two of them, one baby, and yet they don't find time to at least do a bit of cleaning and tidying? I know how all consuming babies are (have had 4, inc one set of twins) but at weekends and after the DH's work there's always an opportunity for one to look after the baby and one do a bit of housework. At that age as well she should be fine to sit in a high chair, play in a playpen etc for a few minutes while one of them does the washing up or throws rubbish away. I should imagine the baby naps at some point in the day as well.

If they have already lived like this for some time, do you really think they are going to change? They don't sound like people who have just got a bit overwhelmed and need a helping hand to get back on track (I'm sure many of us have been in that position).

I do think the DH has been overlooked as well. even working long hours at home I'm sure he could find half an hour for housework a day, and take turns occupying the baby at weekends. It's not all down to your sister.

I'm not criticising you at all OP, far from it, but I am just concerned that you are going to stay there, work your socks off, then they will merrily continue living in filth. From the sound of it - used nappies lying around, dead flies, mouldy unwashed dishes, unsafe environment, they are at risk of someone such as a HV visiting them and taking the matter further.

It's one of the very very few things I would risk having a fall out with my dsis about, so I think you are right to broach it by offering to clean up.

It's very kind of you by the way.

Her baby really could get ill or hurt in a house like that.

Treadsoftly that's great what you have written thank you.

They are as messy as each other and I don't think it's my DSis job to do everything. They both just do minimal and that's the way it's always been. Neither of them motivate each other? Does that sound right?

I do think what would happen if someone just popped by for a visit but I'm sure that a HV stopping by randomly is quite unlikely. Plus as I have said my DN is well looked after, it's just the house that isn't! My DSis is so well put together and fairly organised (nice clothes, make up, hair always straightened, never late) outside of the house I'm sure most people would be shocked at the chaos behind closed doors.

So she has time to do her make up and straighten her hair and wash and iron her clothes but not to make sure her home envirnoment is safe and comfortable for her child - even by washing the dishes? I find that seriously odd. Do you think she has MH issues?

I know she doesn't need sympathy but am I the only one who wants to go and clean this woman's house? Nobody wants to eat takeaway 3 nights in a row things are clearly getting on top for her. It's a shame.

give me her address and i'll go clear and clean it for you. i love a good clear out - no matter how massive.

Really hope it goes well op.

I have no more advice then what people have said but completely agree you should mention it to her.

You should not take your child there if it is even half as bad as you mention here!

I think when you talk to her, perhaps say in terms of your DD being crawling now and into everything, perhaps ask if she'd like you to help her tackle some of the 'projects' to get everything away now before her DC starts moving. She might not have long, my DC2 was crawling at 5 months. Can you talk to your mum? She might need your mum to come over and play withthe baby for a few hours each week to give her dedicated 'cleaning' time - might be an idea to suggest that when you are there.

I think you should say something. But in a concerned and diplomatic way. Someone said something similarish to me once and wasn't best pleased for a long time but it was the kick up the arse I needed to get help. And then I was happier. They had a point.

I think you need to stop being so nonchalant about it with her and say something. I would tell her I wouldn't be happy with my child being in her house because it is so dirty and did she want some help sorting it out. I would help her once and then she would need to keep in top of it. Also discuss why she was letting it get like that - as she has a DH that seems fine with it it would suggest to me they are just dirty people rather than 'issues' as such.

I couldn't stop there - I have OCD - I have a baby, a dog, a horse to look after and I work four days a week but my house is clean and tidy. I will not go to bed with washing up in the sink other than the odd glass someone has used.

I would be ashamed of myself if I had to have a take away because there wasn't a plate clean. They need to have a bit more respect for themselves. There daughters is not cared for properly if she lives in a **hole.

*Their daughter even.