people talking their 1st language at work.

[ghostspirit]

im not going to say anything although sometimes i want to. because i think its rude. there are people at work that can speak English well. but they talk in their 1st language. im sometimes the only one in the room who does not understand. and it makes me feel quite isolated.

not spoken by anyone else in the rest of the world

Patagonia?

a dying language

Hopefully not.

"Welsh – an official language
Public bodies, including local councils, health boards, and the Welsh Government use Welsh as an official language. They provide services, issue official literature and publicity in Welsh as well as in English. Road signs in Wales are in English and Welsh.

Welsh language in schools
Welsh is a compulsory subject for all pupils up to the age of 16 in English-medium schools in Wales. Welsh is taught as a first language in Welsh-medium schools."

www.wales.com/en/content/cms/english/about_wales/language/

Personally, I have no problem with people speaking in their first language to each other.
It's fine in theory, but if I'm honest I think I would find it rather isolating in a work environment.

I was waiting on mention of Patagonia. It had to happen

So your grandparents would be rude to speak to each other in Italian in public in any context - out to dinner together, in the supermarket, walking through town? Why

I agree with your views here, MrTumble. Of course it is quite natural and acceptable to speak to each other in your own language in such circumstances. I think OP was referring specifically to the workplace, where she is the one being excluded because she does not speak that particular language. Which is rude. If a member of your party (wherever you may be) does not speak the language, but all of the rest of you are able to freely converse to include everyone, then why would they behave in such a way?

It's the same as people whispering to each other in the company of someone else and excluding them from the conversation. Bad manners.

I was waiting on mention of Patagonia. It had to happen

Only in response to a question about where else in the world Welsh is spoken. It's called 'giving an answer'.

Yes Fight you are absoloutely right about all of that. My point is that despite all of that, it's still a minority language in Wales and if it didn't have the millions of pounds worth of resources ( which should be spent on much more important things) pumped in to it, and had to survive on it's own it would be long dead!

Yanbu. It's rude.

I was thinking about this thread at work today.

I work in a situation where most people speak two main languages. Language 1 is dominant in the workplace but language 2 is the dominant language in the wider area.

About half of people are pretty fluent in both. A quarter speak language 1 and not language 2 at all. A sprinkling more speak language 1 and have only a passive understanding of language 2. Only one or two people speak language 2 and are very weak in language 1.

The canteen conversation is completely fluid between language 1 and 2 depending on who is in at the time. Language 2 speakers will speak language 2 among themselves. If a language 1 speaker joins they will either join in with language 2 or if they have only a little understanding the conversation will smoothly move into language 1 completely. It will move to and fro between language 1 and language 2 several times in the course of conversation.

However, any private conversations will be conducted in whichever language is common or easiest to both speakers. It will not take account of eavesdroppers in the alternative language.

Why would it be king dead Celtic? Because it has been systematically and over years stamped out by the dominant english culture.

Pumping money into Welsh isn't to save a dying language. It's to try to reverse the damage done by successive english governments. Purposefully and knowingly trying to eradicate another language and culture.

long not king

Fight - I went to school in Wales, from the age of 6 - 16. I think I had two Welsh language lessons in Junior school. I grew up in South Wales, and knew in all my life just two Welsh-speaking people (where Welsh was the first language). I think it's more prevalent in North and West Wales, (and possibly Patagonia)! but still English overtakes it in Wales. Welsh speakers try to keep it alive but, it is dying. Sad but true.

Anyway, the subject is drifting away from exclusion of conversation.

Celtic Hopefully it will become a more widespread language in Wales. I think it's a shame when languages are lost and die out altogether

Indeed Celticlass2 and in areas where Welsh is not widely spoken it should not be compulsory in English-medium secondary schools. It's not just money: that's teaching time being diverted from something parents (and older pupils) might regard as more useful.

Yanbu, it's rude and intimidating. Of course they should speak English. Anyone that lives and works in the UK should speak English. In fact it's beyond rude, its hostile, I'm just amazed that anyone would think otherwise.

I think "hostile" is taking it a bit far to be honest. I don't think her co-workers are doing it to be aggressive towards the OP.

I think the answer is to tell them that you feel left out and would appreciate it if they would speak English so that you can feel like a part of the team. Then it's also on your head to start conversations not just expect to join in theirs.

If that fails then complain to your manager.

Dying in the south, but certainly not in the north - there seems to have been a marked increase in Welsh-speaking children around here and where I grew up (grew up in Gwynedd, now in Wrexham).

I'm fully bilingual, feel equally proficient in both, but a couple of my friends feel far more confident with Welsh than they do with English, and would hate to be in a workplace where they couldn't converse in Welsh.

tarashill I agree that it is rude for a foreigner to speak a language other than English at the work place if they are able to speak good English as others may feel excluded (as per my earlier post).

However I did have to laugh at your statemen Anyone that lives and works in the UK should speak English. You should tell that to all of the English speaking expats that don't bother to learn the local language despite living in a foreign country for long periods of time and who in fact even expect everyone around them to speak perfect English (although often many do of course).

www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/apr/14/david-cameron-immigrants-learn-english

Don't like David Cameron but i do agree with this view.

And I don't think anyone is suggesting for one minute that someone should not be able to converse in their own language, but if you can converse in another in another in order to include everyone in your company, then that is what you should do.

If you are Welsh/Italian/French/German/Whatever speaking people conversing with your own, then that's absolutely fine. But if it specifically excludes someone else to the point of being rude, then that is a problem. IMV

littlemonkey.......you really can't compare what the Op is talking about to the expats who don't bother to learn the language in their host country. Obviously they should(and a lot do) but these expats are usually retired and certainly not in a working environment working alongside Spanish, French, Portugese or whatever. There is a world of difference.

No sorry tarashill you're talking tosh.

More Brits leave the UK every year than foreigners coming in. Your stereotype of the retired Brit living in Spain is only a small fraction of the migrating population.

I know people who have lived abroad for years who still don't know much of the local language. Even their children, brought up in a country other than the UK, have only a cursory grasp of the language of the country they live in, if they go to an English speaking school.

tarashill No, I was not referring to retired people. I have met quite a few young working expats that don't think they need to make the effort to learn the local language.

Projecting, plenty of others go abroad and completely immerse themselves on the culture. To not do so is incredibly ignorant and rude.

As my parents were the former type, I feel justified in saying that the pp's colleagues are rude. As I previously stated, for several years we spoke nothing but Spanish if there were any Spanish people present.

And like projecting said, neither do their children (most go to English speaking International schools).

Anybody who lives and/or works in any other country should learn the language of that country. I've never understood why they wouldn't.

The subject of discussion here, is people from another country (or who speak another language) who live in Britain and can ably speak English, but are choosing to speak in another language, thereby excluding the OP ghostspirit from their conversation. Which is very rude.