people talking their 1st language at work.

[ghostspirit]

im not going to say anything although sometimes i want to. because i think its rude. there are people at work that can speak English well. but they talk in their 1st language. im sometimes the only one in the room who does not understand. and it makes me feel quite isolated.

so they should speak your first language not the one shared by all the other employees?

I wonder if you'd feel obliged to do the same if you got a job in Japan or Germany.

My German husband works in an international firm in Munich (Germany) where the business language is English and employees have something like 30 different first languages, but there are big groups of 4 or 5 mother tongues. Are the Germans rude to speak their first language? Are the English speakers rude to do so socially? Rude to do so around non English speaking temps/ maintenance workers?

Am I rude speaking English to my kids in front of their non English speaking friends?

I find this quite entitled tbh decades years ago I worked for a German bank in London as a PA and was asked to take minutes of a meeting - the executives involved switched to English just for me even though I was the only non German before the business part of the meeting started, to make small talk and discuss sport etc. It was very polite and inclusive of them but made me feel a right ignorant imposition on everyone else!

I would not expect people who shared a language to switch just for me unless it was a work related conversation and business language was English, or I had a sneaky feeling they were talking about me...

freudian im thinking when i was new there like a year ago by not talking english in conversations right away they have not made me feel welcome or tried to include me.

we all go to the same bus stop after work. but leave at slight different times. i might be 1st at the stop and will sit on the bench. then others will start to appear but will wait near the wall a little further down away from where i am and all chat. and will not come near me even though they need to to get on the bus... there was another time one of the other people was talking to me. as soon as another person caught up. she stopped talking english.

YANBU

I have this problem at work. They discuss both private matters and often work matters in their first language, despite most of them speaking near-native english.

It really excludes others, it has negatively impacted my training on the job, and it creates a social divide.

I can't believe there are people who think you are being unreasonable.

I find it rude and my first language is not English.

In mixed company the only polite way is to speak the common language.

I do this all the time. English is the company language, but in our group I am the only "native" speaker. (not in the UK) So, everyone is speaking a second language all the time, 10 different nationalities. I have also asked my colleagues to switch to their native language, in my presence, to better explain things to a person of their nationality. It's nice to be able to have a joke in your own language now and then. Some things also don't make much sense when translated or can be offensive to certain cultures, even when fine within their own culture. And when the rare Aussie drops by, they don't mind if my "English" suddenly switches to an alien language. ;-)

thank you mmuffins its very isolating and means i cant be part of the group as such.

Which country are you in? What is the working language of the company? The answers to those questions make a big difference to whether they're being unreasonable or not!

I work in a company with offices all over the world (over 30 countries) and we often collaborate cross-border. The language which everyone can speak is always used and my colleagues would think it ill-mannered to do otherwise. Most of the time it defaults to English but with some South American locations it's easier to do Spanish (and for me to swap in a Spanish speaker as my beer and tapas ordering standard does not cut it!)

I would say the OP is NBU. There would be a very limited exception if the OP had moved to a country that did not speak her 1st language and was working in a job where everyone else did - though even then constant exclusion would be rude.

not at work but this happens at the nail bar i use

they all speak Vietnamese to each other all the time

im paying for a service and speaking in V while im sat there is rude,and it makes me paranoid

People should always talk in the language that the whole group shares. So if there are two / three / a small group talking, fine for them to talk in their own common language. If it's a general chat across the room or you are definitely in the group conversing, they should speak the language you all share - English. That's just good manners.

If they are talking work then YANBU but if its just social chit chat then YABU. There's a couple of guys at my work who talk to each other in Spanish from time to time but no one is bothered about it.

we all go to the same bus stop after work. but leave at slight different times. i might be 1st at the stop and will sit on the bench. then others will start to appear but will wait near the wall a little further down away from where i am and all chat. and will not come near me even though they need to to get on the bus... there was another time one of the other people was talking to me. as soon as another person caught up. she stopped talking english.

To be honest this sounds like a bigger problem than the language they are speaking. It sounds like just one thing in a list of behaviour that is not really including you?

Is there anyone else at work who doesn't speak this language? Is English the native language? Is there any one colleague who you feel you might have something in common with and might be able to build a relationship with? You might need to do some of the work, especially now you have become ingrained in this pattern in which you are not part of the group, but if you show that you want to have a friendship with your colleagues hopefully they would be open to this. For example instead of sitting on the bench at the bus stop could you stand by the wall and try and strike up conversation with them?

I would try being as friendly as you can manage and trying to strike up conversation as much as you can over a week or two and see if that helps. It may be that you have been seen as being on your own for so long now that your colleagues think you are an introverted or 'loner' type who prefers to be alone and keep to yourself. They may have no idea at your wish to be included and thus that you feel so excluded?

If there is any one of these colleagues who you feel at all able to talk to I really would suggest mustering up the courage to tell him/her how you feel as well and ask whether they might be able to use English to include you in their conversation some of the time.

I think it is rude, but perhaps you should try and start a conversation? Then hopefully others will join in in English (since you obviously can't join in with them).

I'd probably have sat with them and said "ooh, what are you talking about?" by now though (if it looked like a friendly/funny relaxed type chat.

It does annoy me a bit though - I was stuck with a group of people who all spoke Russian once and completely ignored me, I could have kissed the friend who came over and rescued me! Although childishly, we then spoke in Dutch which we knew they wouldn't understand.

Have you ever tried speaking up? They might not know you only speak English, they might think you're quiet and don't want to socialise, they might even think you're rude. It's been a year and you've never said 'Hey? What was that? I didn't catch that' ? You never asked them a question in English or commented on something in English? It doesn't sound like they're blanking you, it sounds like you're blanking them really

Disappointed I meant English, in that in some areas of Wales where Welsh is spoken or Scotland where Gaelic spoken, this might be the 'mother tongue' [and the one they feel most comfortable conversing in] of those in the workplace... particularly the older generation in these areas.

So in that circumstance I could understand why the majority might be speaking Welsh or Gaelic rather than English.

However if there were some in the group who couldn't speak these languages... and everyone could speak English fluently... then I would think it was just good manners for everyone to speak English surely?

Its tough.
Should the blokes at work talking about football, which might as well be in a different language as I have no interest, change the subject when I walk in?
I'm torn. I think it would be wrong to stop people talking in their preferred language during breaks, or if there is a misunderstanding, and it is easier to clarify in a first language. However the exclusion of others in the office isn't on.

So, YANBU the want to feel included.
YABU to say they should never speak their native lounge in your presence.

I don't know what language it is, but with European languages, I can sometimes pick out the basics of a conversation, and will then ask an appropriate question in English. To be fair, these are normally technical conversations, so there are lots of clues, but I can also do it in a restaurant. Means only half the conversation needs translating or summarising! - Just wish I could do it with DH's mother tongue :(

I agree it's rude. It's designed to exclude people. Dh and his family speak a second language and my ILs frequently use it to talk about people so they don't understand. Luckily I do so they can't do it to me but I think it's fucking ignorant.

I find it rude. But i'm in north wales so I'm getting used to it. Nothing quite worse than sitting though a whole meeting where everyone only speaks welsh when they know you can't understand them. Makes you feel Unvalued to be honest which I think is probably the idea

I was wondering if you are in Wales where people naturally speak welsh.
If you have moved into an area where the mother tongue is not English YABU and need to make an effort to learn the language.

If you are working in England YANBU.

However I am sure that people will speak English if you are part of the conversation.
In N Wales people tend to switch languages constantly.
It is what comes naturally-not rude.

How would you feel if they were BSL speakers OP? YABU. If you want to be included, learn.

No hippo-I'm an English person who has lived in N Wales for a long time and I don't think its personal.
Some people who are dear friends speak to each other in Welsh whilst I'm there-although I now know enough to follow a conversation I can't participate.
Formal meetings tend to have translation facilities

Marmite, funny you should say that.

I've always thought it would be a fantastic idea to amalgamate the sign languages, and then teach it at schools worldwide.

In just one generation we would all be able to communicate and the problem would be solved.

Socially it happens all the time and sometimes it is rude sometimes it is just the way it is. A pp mentioned Wales. When I was in Wales recently I appreciated the fact that everyone made an effort to speak English in order to include me - but sometimes they just forgot. That is fine.

At work or at school it is nothing short of racism or bullying to exclude people by speaking a language that they do not understand. My own DS suffered from this in his class - the school made no attempt to deal with it.