people talking their 1st language at work.

[ghostspirit]

im not going to say anything although sometimes i want to. because i think its rude. there are people at work that can speak English well. but they talk in their 1st language. im sometimes the only one in the room who does not understand. and it makes me feel quite isolated.

Momagain "You are...No more isolated than if you were the only one in the office still single, and all anyone talked about was their husband and kids, or vice versa. Or if you were the only non-sports fan in a football, or anything else in the off season, mad office. "

Umm, no. The point you are missing here is CHOICE. The colleagues know OP can't speak their language and does not understand them. At least with football/single/etc you still have a CHOICE to contribute, even if it's just to say "who do you support? What's the offside rule? "I'm off on a blind date tonight" or whatever. but when you literally cannot speak the language there is no choice, and they know that (presumably), that's why it appears to be rude.

It doesn't sound like a very welcoming atmosphere all round, ghost, if people end up arguing among themselves so easily. If the atmosphere is generally hostile than that's probably as much to do with your feeling of exclusion as the language issue.

ghostspirit It sounds like you have quite a stressful working environment, particularly if you work with someone who is nasty. I can see how you would feel isolated if you can't understand your colleagues when they speak another language (and I suppose it's possible that they do this because they too are feeling the pressure of working with the nasty colleague).

If you do decide to voice your concerns, maybe it's worth raising the topic of the working environment more generally - so you could mention the sense of divisiveness that you feel among the non-English speakers, but also the difficulties of having a colleague who is negative and unpleasant. It's not in anyone's interests to have a stressful working environment, and your employers ought to take your concerns seriously.

My workplace has people from 16 countries. There are clusters of people who speak about half a dozen different languages, so at lunch you may hear French, Italian, Polish, Russian, etc. Doesn't bother me, but if you are the only person who can't speak a specific language I can see how that could make for an unpleasant environment.

Have you thought of telling them you'd love to speak another language, and asking them to teach you some of their language?

Haven't read the whole thread, so if I'm repeating a point already made, apologies. What occurred to me is that if in a non English speaking country on holiday, our group speak English. Because we don't speak that country's language, or at least not at all well. Would also try to learn a few language basics ofnthe local language. That is different though, because the op is talking about people who do speak good English, and normally do speak English, therefore making it seem like deliberately excluding English speakers from the conversation. Bit rude, I agree.

I don't think she was calling ivy a bitch...

the op is talking about people who do speak good English, and normally do speak English, therefore making it seem like deliberately excluding English speakers from the conversation

I agree. I'm heavily involved in diversity at work but I think this is isolating and marginalising the OP and she needs to say so.

NoArsenic she wasn't, but I think the comment was unacceptable nevertheless.

LOL at all the people saying "Why don't you learn a bit of their language?"

It takes years of study (and usually immersion) to get to the point where you can follow a full conversation at native-level speed. Being able to count up to 10 and say "What's Your Name?" in Polish or whatever really isn't that helpful.

I think using a minority language is OK if people try to keep it private and discreet--like if someone has decided to sit at the same lunch table with a group of other people who all speak the same language. But it can easily start to feel excluding, which is not good for morale or teamwork.

I am sometimes one of only a couple of English speakers in a workplace (I do not live in the UK), and it is important to show some consideration of people who do not speak your language.

In my classroom the rule was everyone spoke in English. If a student had poor English, they were not excused this rule just had to ask for help to improve.

Otherwise it was quite possible to reach the end of the year, with some students English actually having deteriorated, rather than improved, if they had remained in a little language clique.

And the suggestion of learning their langauge is quite ridiculous. All 60 of them?

When you learn a second language you often only know the words for the environment you work/socialise in.

Many years ago on holiday at a British owned hotel the hotel owner's British children were speaking to each other in French, dad told them to speak English but they said they didn't know the words in English.

They had moved to France aged 10 and 12 and their parents only spoke to them in English but some topics could only be discussed in French.

Personally I don't mind it, but then I can say, "what?" in a couple of languages, that can freak people out.

I don't agree with your example sashh.

Those children were not in an English speaking working environment in an English speaking country.

When you live and work somewhere you should not pick and choose what bits of the language you use.

Also, it's a vicious circle - you'll never be fluent if you insist on using your first language.

OttiliaVonBCup said ^When you live and work somewhere you should not pick and choose what bits of the language you use.

Also, it's a vicious circle - you'll never be fluent if you insist on using your first language^

So do you think people who move to the UK should stop using their mother tongue? Not speak it to their children?

No wonder the UK is so far behind most of the rest of the world with modern foreign language learning if this is a prevailing attitudes - other languages are just not valued.

I speak English to my children 100% of the time and we live in Germany - they are fully bilingual and most Germans are suprised they also speak another language.

When I (very occasionally) come across the attitude that as we live in Germany I should speak German to my kids, it is only from older, less educated thick, backward, racist people, 99% of people express nothing but jealousy that my kids get the advantage of being bilingual so easily. I wonder which attitude would be the dominant if we moved back to the UK switched to German as a family language to keep them bilingual.

I really doubt a lot of the posters on here would forgo speaking English socially to other English speakers if they moved to an area with a different community language - just look at a lot of ex-pat communities...

This thread is in the context of a working environment.

I did say that in my post and I did acknowledge the case with the children in France that was given above.

I have Maltese friends and when I went to Malta to stay with them we went to a party. Everyone was talking Maltese but whenever I went near to a group of people chatting, even when I wasn't in the conversation, they'd start speaking in English. I thought it was incredibly welcoming of them. I'll never forget their manners, consideration and language ability! I think it's rude of your colleagues to do the opposite.

When I (very occasionally) come across the attitude that as we live in Germany I should speak German to my kids, it is only from older, less educated thick, backward, racist people,

Oh and do tell us what you think of people who don't share your views, MrTumbles.

MrsTumbles I agree with a lot you say, but I do wonder how many per cent of people would express their jealousy at your kids' bilingualism if the language you spoke at home was not English (or another 'desirable' language such as French or Spanish), but let's say Turkish.

I just don't see how you could police people's private conversations without being terribly heavy-handed. And where do you draw the line? Ninety-nine people making stilted conversation in their second language to avoid one person feeling awkward?

Also, what MrTumbles said about English speakers not being so keen on giving up using English in a social setting. Of course in most of the rest of the world people are already multilingual.

YANBU. A few years ago I worked in a nursing home where several of my colleagues were Polish. They would speak in Polish when alone together naturally, but if myself or another non-Polish speaking staff member joined them they would switch to English - and generally explain the topic of conversation! Although they didn't have to do that obviously.

Excluding someone in this way is just plain rude.

I think parents talking a different language to their kids because they are raising them bilingually is different. Most people understand this and do not find it offensive.

Ultimately it's about manners as much as language.