people talking their 1st language at work.

[ghostspirit]

im not going to say anything although sometimes i want to. because i think its rude. there are people at work that can speak English well. but they talk in their 1st language. im sometimes the only one in the room who does not understand. and it makes me feel quite isolated.

littlemonkey you are absolutely right - my MIL gave up speaking Croatian to her sons when they were very young for that exact reason, which means they can't talk to their mother or maternal grandmother or aunt and uncle in their mother tongue, and DH was almost as much of a foreigner as me when we visited the town his grandmother lives in. Bloody sad. I also know a Polish mum married to a German who was too worried about other people thinking she was rude to speak Polish to her kids except when alone with them, leaving her with kids who refuse to speak Polish and only the eldest of whom understands almost everything - she has to translate between them and their grandmother, and they've missed a chance to grow up bilingual. Sad to allow people to bully or shame you out of your native tongue.

If the talk is about work of course it would be absolutely inappropriate not to use the business language of the firm - though if 99% of the employees are Turkish/ Italian/ Hindu native speakers there is no reason the business language should be English - often business and community languages are different outside the UK.

Nothing gives anyone the right to insist people don't have private, non work conversations in their mother tongue

I think it depends. My current team range across 8 different countries. When we're waiting to start a tc, they will quite often have a conversation in their local language or if they need to clarify a point between themselves. Generally, I don't mind as it makes things easier for them as long as they clarify the end result to me in english.

I do however expect most people to converse in a language everyone can speak (almost always english!). I once went out for an evening meal with a client (6 of them, one of me) and they spoke in french, ALL evening. It was really awful. They were fully aware I couldn't understand them. Extremely rude.

Can you not see that from their point of view, the presumption that they all spoke good enough English to sustain an evening's conversation just for your benefit might have seemed a little rude too?

Say you went out to dinner with six English-speaking clients and one French. Would the six of you crack out your GSCE French skillz to chat all evening? I doubt it.

Also, they are your clients. They pay your company for whatever you do.
Wouldn't it be good etiquette to send someone who can actually speak the client's language!?

I work for a global company, but the working language is English, so I can expect everyone to speak English. One of the things I love about working here is that I can walk down the corridor and hear all sorts of languages being spoken.

However, if the conversation is to involve me, it needs to be in English. I do have a basic level of understanding in a number of languages, and I can usually get by if I absolutely have to, but I'm far from fluent in any of them, and conversation would be very stilted, not least because I can understand more than I can say. Colleagues do sometimes slip into German or Dutch or whatever, but they don't do it deliberately - they've even addressed me in Dutch before, usually forgetting, and I just mention I'm still not quite fluent (I've never learnt any Dutch at all,) and they just apologise and go back to English. If I were actually based over there, would learn it, because it would just annoy me to live with a language I couldn't follow.

The key point is that it's not deliberate, and they change when it's pointed out. If they didn't, that would be a problem. How aware are your colleagues of how you feel? If it's never been pointed out, it could be they think you're very self-contained and prefer to keep yourself to yourself, rather than realising you feel isolated because of the language. If it's deliberate and conscious, it's basically bullying. Either way, after so long, you probably need some management involvement to improve things, and how they do that would depend on how aware your colleagues are, whether it's awareness and consideration which needs improving, or stamping out deliberate bullying.

i dont think it should just be that they only speak english if its a work topic. i work in a school kitchen so people are chatting all the time. it might be a general/social conversation. but i can go days without talking to anyone because they choose not to speak english. even though they are very good at it. i just wonder how they would feel if it was just one of them who was left out.

i do know that they have been told by the area manager to talk english at work. the kitchen manager has never said anything as far as i know...

ghost Do you try and start conversations with them? If so then they will obviously respond in English rather than their mother tongue.

I'm also in agreement with the PP who suggested asking them to teach you some basic stuff in their first language. I don't say that because I think you will suddenly become fluent enough to join in but because it is 1) a good conversation starter and will encourage interaction and 2) because they will probably be delighted that someone is showing an interest in their language.

Sounds like a poorly managed unit ghost, and I would contact your manager again with your complaints, and see what can be done to build a more inclusive team.
but I also think you should try and learn their language. You've been there a year you say, and have made no effort it seems to communicate more easily with your coworkers. Bit lazy don't you think?

I learn languages everywhere I go, and have worked all over the world. It's very entitled to think that everyone should change just for you.

I agree with Sorcha, and don't think she's winding anyone up. Not everyone in England has English as a mother tongue.... Not everyone in Britain speaks English as a mother tongue.

Time to get learning, so you fit in ghost?

OP if it's a kitchen, it's a safety issue, which trumps the inter-personal, inclusivity and etiquette aspects.

The question is what to do? Charm, complaint or jobhunt?

Venus there is already a common language that the whole group speaks fluently. There is just no NEED for ANY of the group to be learning entire languages from scratch to facilitate communication.

im not going to learn another language there is no way i would pick it up. i just think its plain rude. yes i have been there a year but a year ago should they not have been making me feel welcome as the new person. no just spoke in their own language. how would that make anyone feel welcome or feel they can be part of things.

It'srude.

If you want to speak your own language in the comfort of your own home, amongst people who speak the same language then that's brilliant. Like my grandparents, they'll slip into Italian when they're at home.

But if you expect to live and work here, then you speak the language when you are in public and amongst English speakers.

People on here are trying to bend over backwards to come across as liberal, they're coming out with ridiculous suggestions such as the OP learning the language to fit in. As part of this country speaking her own language should be enough to fit in.

At my workplace my colleagues are of all different nationalities, some are from the same country but they wouldn't dream of conversing in their native language at work. Because they are polite. Because they are professionals. I suppose if they did though people on here would suggest I learned their language. I'd have to learn another 10+ if everyone started doing it. Or maybe, just maybe, people should be expected to speak English at work if they are working in an english speaking country country.

And if they don't speak well enough english? Well they're never going to learn if they don't try.

OP the people you work with are rude, and they are bullies. They know you don't speak the language and chose to purposely exclude you.

Venus - I disagree. English is the mother tongue of Britain. If you are living and working here, then you learn to speak English. Much the same as if a British person were to work in Italy, for example, he or she should learn to speak Italian, or living in France, you learn to speak French. You learn to speak the Mother Tongue of the country in which you have chosen to live.

I lived and worked in Germany for several years in the 80s - so I spoke German. It's basic and simple good manners.

Evans

... Welsh is the mother tongue of Wales.

ghost Nobody expects you to become fluent in Urdu/Punjabi/Polish etc. I just thought it would be a nice way to get conversations and inclusion going.

Do you try and start conversations with them ("what are you doing at the weekend" "how are your children getting on at school" "did you see that programme on the tv last night" etc.). As I said, if you ask in English then they will respond in English and you will get a conversation going that will make you feel included. If they were used to speaking in their first language before you arrived then it sounds like it's just become a habit. Help them to break that habit by being proactive rather than just waiting for them to include you.

Conversations are about taking part not just listening to others speaking irrespective of the language.

Just to clarify, when I said "I just thought it would be a nice way to get conversations and inclusion going" I didn't mean getting conversations in their language going! What I mean is by asking "how do you say x in y language?" it gets a conversation (mostly in English) going. They will probably love the fact you are showing an interest and will be very happy to chat away to you.

Moomin - only in parts of Wales. (I speak from experience, having grown up there)

Sorry - meant to say: Welsh WAS the Mother tongue of Wales, but it isn't any longer, a dying language, not spoken by anyone else in the rest of the world. Although many Welsh people do speak Welsh, many more don't, so one can't quite make the same comparison.

Greys If you are going to live and work here you speak English when you are in public

So your grandparents would be rude to speak to each other in Italian in public in any context - out to dinner together, in the supermarket, walking through town? Why??

English speakers in non English speaking countries speak English to one another without a second thought.

Speaking another language to the country's "official" one is not mastrabatory self indulgence, it is not a dirty secret or something only acceptable in private.

Or maybe, just maybe, people should be expected to speak English at work if they are working in an english speaking country country. And if they don't speak well enough english?

Oh the irony.

Yanbu. I hate being serviced at the till where staff are talking to each other in own language....

london what kind of shops are you going to? You should not expect to be serviced at the till!

Evans agree with you about the Welsh language. It's been articulacy kept alive by pumping millions of pounds in to every sort of
scheme imaginable!

GreatAunt quite :o