To feel really upset that a mum sent her child to school ill again

[Yesitismeagain]

I work in a primary school. One boy (age 9) cried today because he felt so unwell. He was ill yesterday (temperature and feeling ill with it) and his parents were called early, but they didn't come till normal pick up.

Today he was back in, but was obviously very unwell from the start. The school phoned by 9.30am to come and get him. He was crying, shivering and just lying on the floor in the 'sick room' (a small room off the office).

By 2pm a parent still hadn't arrived. The office were told that the neither parent could come as they work.

Is it just me that this is neglect?

I suspect some parents would ask "How ill? " And try to get further information.

How on earth would a school secretary know how ill? She isn't a doctor.

As said before, all a child will get at school is a plastic chair, metal bowl, blue paper towel and a long and stressy wait whilst the office staff frantically ring the parents over and over again and possibly quiz the poor child (kindly) about where the bloody hell his parents might be. There's usually no bed. Certainly no Calpol. And definitely no GP consultations!

Not at either of my children's school. They have a sick room with bed.

Fine if you don't want to define policy, but if you think a policy is a good solution, someone will have to define it. And if free schools define such policies and exclude as a result, it doesn't take away the LA's obligation to provide that child with an education, AFAIK.

I didn't say a policy was a good or a bad solution - I never suggested a policy. And I don't know about you, but if a school excluded my child (however unlawfully) because I'd put my job first, the fact that the council would have to find him another school wouldn't be much consolation for the fact that his education had been disrupted, he had been taken away from his friends and we'd been left with no choice but to take whatever vacant space in another school might be available.

Sigh.

All I meant was that there was no definite timeframe for Day 1 given in the OP. 90 mins travel distance and 30 mins to pick up the message, call back. find a colleague and say you need to go and they will have to cover, etc is all within norms, I'd've thought. My school finishes at 3.05 so that would be two hours.

As the OP herself hasn't been back much, I don't know how productive it is to keep talking about that specific case.

" I strongly suspect that if parents found themselves in the situation that that school place is withdrawn and they have to send their child to the school 20 miles away which is the only one with a spare place, "

To enforce this, the school would have to have a policy on what was and wasn't acceptable.

Why are you so obsessed with policies, AKnickerful? I've got news for you, sometimes schools break the rules on exclusions.

Charming.

If schools are going to begin excluding on the basis of parental actions not child behaviours then the LA, whose problem it will become, will want to know the basis of that exclusion, don't you think?

kim, if my chid's school phoned and said he was feverish and crying and lying on the floor, for sure I'd either leave work immediately or get my dp or someone else I trusted to go. If that were impossible I'd go myself, come what may. I would not leave the school looking after him for hours. And I do have a job in which sometimes that will be difficult at the very least.

I was a teacher when the DSs were at school, Kim. If the schools thought it important enough to phone me I went and collected them.

Both had chronic asthma.

Fixed period exclusion

A fixed period exclusion is where your child is temporarily removed from school. They can only be removed for up to 45 school days in 1 school year.

If a child has been excluded for a fixed period, schools should set and mark work for the first 5 school days.

If the exclusion is longer than 5 school days, the school must arrange full-time education from the 6th school day.

Permanent exclusion

Permanent exclusion means your child is expelled. The local council must arrange full-time education from the 6th school day.

www.gov.uk/school-discipline-exclusions/exclusions

AKnickerful, how many times do I have to point out that I acknowledge that under the present law it is unlawful for a maintained school to exclude a child for what their parent does; but schools have been known to act unlawfully. Just as, as has been pointed out upthread, some employers sack people unlawfully. Though it wouldn't be unlawful for an independent school.

I don't advocate that schools should do this. I'm saying that it's not wholly inconceivable that some schools might exclude, if sufficiently pissed off by a parent using them as free childcare for sick children. This is such a side issue.

I could equally asked why are you so obsessed with the specifics of this case!

If a suggestion to motivate parents not to do this is to threaten exclusions, then parents need to be aware of that risk and what will trigger it, just as there are attendance guideline levels that trigger letters home, contacting the educational welfare officer etc.

kim, how many times do you think a school simply picks up the phone and says nothing more than"Your child is ill" and puts the phone down? So, really, I am not going to answer a hypothetical question about something that doesn't happen.

I imagine schools would be in big piles of poo if they did exclude unlawfully and might well be forced to take a child back on the roll by the LA.

This is why I stay out of AIBU, bad for my blood pressure.

Nighty night.

I'm not obsessed with the specifics of this case. But I'm following normal convention and discussing the scenario that the thread is about. It is interesting that those who seek to justify parents who use schools in this manner are somewhat desperate to get away from those specifics.

On the exclusion front, it puzzles me that you appear to suggest that it doesn't matter if your child is excluded because of the duty to arrange education from the 6th day of the exclusion. You do realise that if it is a permanent exclusion that education is usually in something like a Pupil Referral Unit, don't you?

Knickerful, LAs have no jurisdiction over academies, free schools and independent schools.

YANBU. They obviously sent him to school the second day thinking that he can spend the day in the sick bay. That is not what it is for! It's completely unfair to the office staff who now have a higher risk of catching whatever he has. I can perhaps understand them not being able to make it back until pickup time but sending him the next day when obviously unwell is horrible. I'm not sure what the school could do - child protective services are unlikely to take an interest in it but if I worked in the office, I might be hounding them every half hour with phonecalls.

That said I've been called a couple of times and have been told my son was feeling poorly only to take him home and he starts bouncing off the walls with good health.

Clam And don't think schools don't judge! They do. Those parents' names will be on a "list" somewhere.

May I suggest that if your school has such a list you think think very seriously about destroying it. That would almost certainly be against data protection laws and one little FOI request could result in an awful lot of trouble.

Oh ffs, that's a turn of phrase. But schools are well within their rights to refer pupils they feel are a cause for concern. And no issues with FOI, as parents would be informed about the referral.

Well, it wasn't a very obvious "turn of phrase". There's no need to be quite so rude.

I didn't say schools weren't within their rights to refer pupils, but I'm not sure you really understand what FOI is, given your last sentence which makes no sense.

If factual information is recorded, what could the "awful lot of trouble" be?
In this case therefore, if it was stated that the child was unwell and the parents phoned, but no one arrived until 3.30pm, and that the child was returned to school the next morning and a phone call made at 9.30, but no one arrived until whatever time to collect and such-and-such reason given, how is that a problem? Assuming it is factually correct and written without blame or judgement apportioned.

You referred to schools judging parents and their names being on a "list". That is what I was responding to, as evidenced by my quoting your exact words.

Your completely new and totally unrelated scenario above would not be a problem.

HTH.