To boycott establishments that sell halal meat?

[penguinpear]

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/food/article4333133.ece

I don't eat meat and am aware that a lot of meat in this country has been produced with dubious animal welfare standards, but for halal abattoirs to trade on the fact that their meat is 'stun free' ie the animal dies in panic and agony and they promote this, seems very wrong to me.

The British Veterinary Association objects to it too.

ah Denmark that bastion of pig kindness - yes you are obviously deeply deeply concerned for animal welfare if you quote Denmark as somewhere to look to

sow crates anyone?

I assumed the OP was boycotting all establishments selling meat because, as we discovered last year, a huge amount of meat in the UK is halal and not labelled as such.

The kosher argument is a bit "what aboutitus"- there is a truly tiny amount of kosher meat in the food chain and a minuscule amount which is unlabelled.

Personally I won't boycott but I wish all halal/ kosher meat had to be labelled as such as I don't fancy some weird ritual being performed over my food.

My local supermarkets all sell labelled halal meat in a separate section so the OP would have to boycott all the big 4 supermarkets in my area if she wanted to boycott establishments selling halal meat.

Groundhog is that so really hard to understand?

ghosty
I read up about the Danish pork industry - I don't think I would take any advice from the Danes on animal welfare after that.

"Theres no official statistics even taken on how many cattle and sheep arrive at slaughter with broken limbs or necks. And the duration of the journey, especially in hot conditions, is just unacceptable."

TheChandler, in Ireland its illegal for abattoirs to slaughter any injured animal. They will not accept them so there's little in it for the farmer to send them in cramped conditions. I'm shocked that its not the same in the UK.

I thought the religious reasoning behind halal methods was to ensure people did not take the animals life lightly and werent scoffing meat all the time, it appears to have been corrupted though with all this mass produced kfc and nandos rubbish

I wonder why people are giving the OP a hard time. It's up to her where she shops and why. We regularly get calls for boycotting/petitioning/action taking by posters with specific views on something. We sign some, we agree with some, we don't others.

Many people in the UK have taken a stance against animal cruelty in whatever form - it isn't new.

Actually I read an article after last years "halal not labelled" scandal which said although Muslims make up around 1% of the population they consume a much higher % of meat than that. You could therefore assume that their diet is much more meat heavy than non Muslims

engeika
The OP hadn't done their research properly. The vast majority of halal meat is pre-stunned the only difference in the slaughter method between it and non-halal is a prayer. How is it an issue of animal cruelty?

By all means campaign against any unstunned slaughter but to assume that halal = unstunned is lazy.

Do whatever you like. Halal is a bit of a red herring that people who wish to justify eating meat use to say "I would never eat INHUMANELY slaughtered animals, oh no, not me" as if traditional Western abattoirs did it with rainbows and fluffy teddy bears.

(I say this as a meat eater, incidentally)

Erm, ghostly I was (I thought) quite clearly talking about the law that says all animals should be stunned and, pointing out that an entire nation of people cannot really be considered "Islamophobes". This might just suggest that there are, indeed, other reasons for caring about this issue that have nothing to do with religious hatred.

Unless you are going to dispute my point and pretend that Denmark passed this law because they are racist bigots. Are you?

What you've done is the equivalent of yelling, "Look out there's a monster behind you" and running away rather than addressing the actual point I made.

How predictable.

Caffe

I asked up thread if the Danes have problem with stunned Halal slaughter - you haven't answered. Please could you do so.

NotYou

How silly. You really can't see the difference between stunning an animal to reduce it's suffering while we kill it, and not bothering because some stupid old book says not to?

We are an omnivorous species. Lots of us eat meat, and we kill them to eat them.

We are also human beings with a conscience and we TRY (some of us) to do that with the least amount of suffering we can manage.

Perhaps we're not managing that as effectively as we might, but we are trying.

no but you need to clarify are you opposed for welfare reasons or not?

because how an animal LIVES means far more to the animal than how it dies

Please to point to any post where I have called people Islamaphobes or racist bigots?

I will happily apologise ...but you will find that I haven't

You need to get your story straight really - are you opposed because is Islamic or barbaric - if it's barbaric why not look at animal welfare as a whole :)

I would be happy for 100% of British meat to be stunned - since most Halal meat is anyway I doubt you'll get an outcry from most Muslims ...

Kosher meat might present more problems

My local supermarkets all sell labelled halal meat in a separate section so the OP would have to boycott all the big 4 supermarkets in my area if she wanted to boycott establishments selling halal meat.Groundhog is that so really hard to understand?

Did the OP say she could only shop at those grocery stores? There are other butchers

Yesterday 09:51 penguinpear

I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't eat meat, that's a choice people make for themselves. I am upset though that a cruel method of slaughter is being used for religious reasons, it makes no difference to the taste of the meat if the animal has been stunned.

It also makes very little difference to the animals experience........ I choose to buy British free range meat because this is the least cruel method of meat production but I don't fool myself that any slaughter house is a happy place for animals.

Groundhog

1. the OP said they would boycott places selling halal meat - that means boycotting most UK supermarkets

2. the OP doesn't eat meat anyway.

ghosty For welfare, legal and ideological reasons.

European law says that all animals should be stunned before slaugher...but offers a religious exemption from an otherwise universal law.

Denmark took away that exemption, and I think we should too. The law was imposed in recognition of the fact that animal suffering should be minimised where possible. Well, I think that should apply to all animals, no matter who is going to eat them. Hardly an "out there" POV, is it?

And it wasn't just Denmark, by the way.

Amd anyway...what is your issue here? If most halal meat IS stunned, then most of the Muslim community clearly believes it should be and is not at odds with their religious teachings.

Qhite why you need to stand up for the most literal of Muslims who clearly make up the minority, I have no idea. The last thing you should be doing is standing up for anyone who asserts the right to take the Koran & Hadith literally. Have you read them?

Or do you think anyone should have the right to do whatever the fuck they like so long as they think they have their god on their side?

No, you didn't call me anything. But that other poster trotted out the inevitable "anti-Islam" card. I responded, you dnarked back with a totally irrelevant remark about pigs.

Chaz Sorry, didn't see your earlier post to me.

Denmark only insist on stunning. The way the slaughter proceeds from there is not the issue. It's about possible suffering. Unconcious animals, we hope, don't suffer no matter what happens to them. That is the point.

But let me make Sunny's day while I'm here. It'll be my good dead for the day.

I am indeed anti-Islam. Very. It's one of the very best things about me, actually.

I am anti-Islam because Islam is anti-me. It hates me and everyone else on this thread. It says my value as a woman is limited, I occupy the same strata of importance as pigs and dogs. I'll probably go to hell because 99% of women will end up there regardless. My husband is entitled to shut my nagging mouth with his fists (providing he's asked nicely first) - and if I am raped, I'd better arrange an audience of decent men to watch....I will need them as witnesses when I report it to the police. Without them, I am an adulteress for fucking another man and will be stoned/beheaded. Of course, I am not a Muslim, so I am worthy of death just for that, but if I was, I need to stay one because, guess what? Prison if I am very, very lucky...death quite possibly.

Although...lest we forget, Islam specifically teaches not to kill innocents. This is true. Very true. Problem is...who are the innocents? Well, not me or anyone else on this thread that's for sure, which is a bummer, eh?

But not all Muslims believe all this? Indeed not. That is why I am not anti-Muslim. Unlike a lot of you, I don't tend to stick 1.3bn human beings in one basket and assume that criticism of a barbaric ideology is criticism of everyone associated with it.

No, I tend to judge people in the only way we can - by the way they behave. I don't assume anything about them just because of a single label...why do you?

But I am entitled to criticise and hate an ideology that was invented 1600 years ago when blood thirsty death cults were all the rage. Quite why so many of you feel the need to bend over backwards taking offence on behalf of this pathetic and horrible religion is beyond me.

Actually, no it isn't. It's because you can't think your way out of this insistence that all faith be respected, particularly when it involves brown people. No matter how much it hurts them it must be respected. Because they are not like us, because they have a different culture, we can't demand the same basic rights for them that we expect for ourselves. Well, there's a name for that. Begins with an R and ends in an ism.

So, here we are, on a thread with a predictably large number of you demanding the right of a select few to barbarically break a law that we wouldn't insist on for ourselves. Well, how very tolerant of you.

Anyway, I am heartily sick of having to explain this basic stuff to people who should, frankly, know better.

I'll come back next time an Islamic loon agrees with you that we haven't respected his invented religion enough and blows someone's head off...then we can have the joy of going through it all again.

In the meantime I shall proudly continue to be anti-Islam (on account of my basic human concern for everyone, no matter what colour their skin) and leave you to your ill-informed hatred of the wrong people.

My mistake about the vegetarian thing it still doesn't stop her from shopping in local markets and shops that don't sell halal meat. It's much easier in the case if you are a vegetarian I'd say.

Caffe
Can I just point out that I am a British and from a Christian background and DH is a Muslim from North Africa so please don't assume you know what my motivations are.

By the way, have you ever read some of St Paul's views on women?

A successful boycott is one that makes the boycotter feel good, OP, so you boycott what you like.

Penguin, YANBU. The no stun policy, no mater now rare, appals me.

Excuse the typos.

Chaz sadly some people refuse to look beyond lazy generalisations

I have no problem with religious freedoms

Yes you have OP - the right to eat kosher or halal is an aspect of religious freedom.

Maybe you can do a real shocker of a demonstration and go to Norway and eat meat, rather than boycott halal meat here.

Because the population is small, and it is difficult to profitably produce sufficient halal meat to a small Muslim population, and market it as such, they have gone to the radical way of ensuring that all abbatoirs do it the halal way, but stun and in an ethical way.

Therefore, most Christian and Buddhist Norwegians eat halal without batting an eyelid.

Next thing we know, there will be an uproar that the animals will have a prayer said in the wrong denomination to their own beliefs.

Disclaimer: I have not checked that the facts in the above is 100% correct, so it may not be as true as I think it is.