To boycott establishments that sell halal meat?

[penguinpear]

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/food/article4333133.ece

I don't eat meat and am aware that a lot of meat in this country has been produced with dubious animal welfare standards, but for halal abattoirs to trade on the fact that their meat is 'stun free' ie the animal dies in panic and agony and they promote this, seems very wrong to me.

The British Veterinary Association objects to it too.

Eat more game. Where I live there are so many deer they are a menace, eating young trees and thus reducing the habitats of other species. They are shot by people like my neighbour, who does a quick, humane job. No queuing up to go into an abattoir, and lovely lean meat.

This might give you some clarity on the fact that stunning is permitted in Halal slaughter.
www.organic-halal-meat.com/article/fatwa-stunning.php

Kew
x post

Ghosty I accept that most people think iabu. I have no problem with religious freedoms, but don't believe in promotion of pain and suffering in animals.

Any halal meat killed in a mainstream abattoir (ie nearly all of it) is stunned first.

"Halal" just means legal - ie the animal is healthy, and is alive when its throat is cut allowing the blood to drain (ie exactly the same as usual non-halal methods) and a prayer is recited. Alive does not mean conscious.

Both halal and kosher meat have exemptions from otherwise legally binding standards on stunning animals before slaughter.

So if you want to boycott halal, then you also have to boycott kosher. Although at least where I am from, it's easier to forget about kosher because there isn't a big Jewish community in the area.

As someone else pointed out, there is actually debate within the muslim community about whether or not stunning fits in with halal. The fact is that most places don't mark "stunned" or "non stunned" halal meat, so yes, you are taking a risk if stunning is important to you.

I personally wouldn't buy halal meat, nor would I be happy shopping somewhere that sold predominately halal meat products. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be available at all - that's not fair on muslim communities. No matter how fucking stupid I consider it.

I don't consider this a double standard. There is a REASON why there are european directives about animals having to be stunned. Because out of the two - it is considered far more humane. I know if I was going to be killed I'd rather at least get knocked senseless first, rather than just having my throat slit in a wide eyed panic.

It's no more hypocritical than refusing to eat battery eggs because of the cruelty involved, but being okay with free range. It's no more hypocritical than being happy to eat duck, but not foie gras or veal.

OP
Are you vegan?

It always amazes me how people can feel so passionately about something that they start a thread on a huge forum about and make plans to hold life changing boycotts without reading anything at all about the thing they are so offended and upset by.

Which shops will you buy your food from?
As others have said:
What about establishments that sell Kosher?
Will you be asking for proof of stunned vis non stunned Halal?

Abr1d is right - an animal taken out with a clean shot (and not hunted down causing fear/panic) is the most humane meat you are going to get.

A quick word re: organic meat and milk - many animals suffer terribly and/or die from easily treatable conditions because they cannot be given antibiotics. One of the reasons organic meat demands a higher price is because of 'wastage' due to preventable deaths. Mastitis is very common in dairy herds but an organic dairy farmer cannot use ABs to clear the infection. Organic might be better for humans but don't kid yourself that the animals benefit from it.

The asda near me in Bolton has a whole halal section where i live there is a reasonably large muslim community they also sell non halal products they cater for everyone [ Shrug].

I find it funny that anyone would say disliking non-stun relates to fear of other cultures. I'm from a multi ethnic community and non-white family presumably you stereotype posters...

That's interesting about organic: makes total sense but not something I had ever thought about.

FightOrFlight
Absolute nonsense.
Organic farming standards forbid the use of routine antibiotics (and if you read up on microbial resistance to antibiotics because of overuse in Farming, and the potentially disastrous consequences this is going to have for even basic operations in a few decades time, you might well agree).

But if an animal is ill, of course it can be given antibiotics. It just then can't be killed and the meat labeled 'organic' until the antibiotics have been withdrawn from the system. To suggest that organic farmers let animals suffer and die rather than give them antibiotics to treat them is just outright rubbish.

Should have said organic farmers have very limited* use of antibiotics, but the outcome is the same - more suffering

OP
Do you object to pre-stunned Halal meat?

But Chazs lets not let the facts get in the way of a good boycott.

OP so boycott pakmeccameats then.

I suspect they aren't in most supermarkets so you're probably fine.

Just ask your local supermarket if they supply and non-stun Kosher or Halal meat. Kosher meat is far far more liked to be not stunned than Halal - why are you focusing on Halal?

oh purrrrleees do cut and paste the bit where anyone says it relates to 'fear of other cultures'

you are being very silly OP

most Halal meat is STUNNED

you don't even eat meat - you wont answer the question about being vegan or you feelings on Kosher meat

you wont acknowledge the facts

you just keep rambling nonsense

do you have an actual point to make or is it just 'I am boycotting something I don;t eat anyway - all hail me'

FightOrFlight
Nope, still nonsense.
Organic farmers can use antibiotics to treat when it is medically necessary. If you think that is 'very limited' then I dread to think what cases you think doctors should be prescribing antibiotics to humans.

Stop scaremongering by using outright lies!

All New Zealand lamb is halal, so your supermarket shopping will be very limited.

The vast majority of Halal meat in this country (unlss you are seeking out specifically Halal butchers) is produced in the same abattoirs using the same procedures as all other meat (the food standards agency found more than 80% of halal meats were stunned). As far as I know all halal chicken are stunned and no kosher meat is stunned.

You really should be boycotting Kosher meat not Halal.

I don't buy it. I do eat meat but I'm selective in more ways than that. I do not eat pork, ham, bacon etc because I have seen pig farms and their methods are horrendous. I only eat free range chicken. I've never eaten lamb since I was a child because I couldn't understand eating a baby animal. I also don't eat meat every day and try to avoid junky meals with processed meat. I don't find it hard and can always have the vegetarian option if I want to avoid halal.

I avoid kosher as well. And avoiding halal means I can avoid the 20% which isn't stunned as you can't tell the difference.

The government is considering (though perhaps not very actively) the labelling of meat stunned or non-stunned. If you feel like educating yourself you can probably find it in online house of commons library. It was authored by Christopher Barclay.

I'm sure you won't mind making a bit of effort to educate yourself.

It isn;t pro or anti it just lays out the facts as we know them.

Spare

It's not outright lies, the use of ABs is limited on organic farms.

"Organic dairy farmers, having limited use of antibiotic treatments, often use alternative therapies such as homeopathy for the treatment of mastitis and adopt a more holistic approach to mastitis prevention"

www.dairyco.org.uk/technical-information/animal-health-welfare/mastitis/#.VMoLLkesWHs

Moan - avoiding Halal and Kosher labelled meat because you are concerned some of it may be unstunned is rational.

Boycotting all establishments that sell those products whether or not they are stunned as the OP is suggesting would seem less rational.