To think that your children should come before God?

[lbsjob87]

Before I start, I just want to say that while I'm not religious myself, I totally respect those who are, and am not criticising 99% of churchgoers (or equivalent).
But in the last week I have heard of two separate families where I just feel really sorry for the kids involved.

The first is an old school friend, married to a vicar, always been heavily involved with the church, as you may expect. She has 3 DC, 14, 12 and 5. Her DS1 (12yo) is very high functioning ASD. Her DS2 is in Reception year.

Until recently they lived and worked in a suburban parish in a medium sized city in the South. DS1 had various problems at primary school, exclusions, etc due to his later diagnosed ASD, and my friend ended up giving up her job at a local charity to be there for him as much as poss.

He eventually settled down in Year 7, as his new school was very geared up to help SEN kids, and started to make progress, and my friend was looking at going back to work p/t.
DS2 started school in Spetember, and apparently was loving it.

Then in November she put on Facebook that her husband had "had the calling" to basically up sticks and move to Manchester to continue God's work. So two weeks before Christmas, they moved to their new church, which is in a similar kind of neighbourhood as the last one, but obviously 300 miles away.

I sent her a note asking how they were settling in, she said her DD was upset at leaving her friends, but she'll "make more". She's Yr 10, so just starting Term 2 of her GCSEs, DS1 is trying hard to settle but has regressed into himself a lot, and DS2 was just upset because he couldn't do the school nativity because they pulled him out the week before, but was getting over it. She was very upbeat about it all, but also said she was a bit down at the mo.

So I had this conversation, then a few days later, my brother said his kids were going to a leaving party at their church for some friends. The parents have "had the calling" to give up their jobs and go and do missionary type work in Africa. They don't think it's a good idea to take their 7yo DD, because she is at school, so she's going to stay here with her GPs, but they are taking their 3yo and 14mo.

Just seriously, what is wrong with these people? That is 6 kids I know about who seem to be having their lives flipped upside down, due to their parents "calling". Surely their duty is to their own children above their beliefs? I can totally understand being heavily involved with church life, but it's the uprooting the entire family to do it - in both cases giving up existing jobs, so it's not to find work as such.

I should add that my judgement is clouded by the fact I had an ultra religious uncle who it later emerged abused two of my cousins because "God wanted them to make their dad happy." We didn't find out for years because they became more and more isolated from the family and move away every couple of years.

Not obviously suggesting that is the case here, but it does make me ultra aware of how children can sometimes be affected by the itinerant nature of this sort of lifestyle.

Also, for entirely different reasons, I moved around a lot as a kid and know how unsettling it is.

AIBU to feel sorry for these kids, or do I just not get it? It's none of my business, obviously, but I can still feel for them, can't I?

i ask them to prove it was god's will

But surely you feel the parents are also accountable for the child's well being legally in that they can be prosecuted if they fail to meet needs. I'm not suggesting that's a word I would use to describe the scenario the op has used but you can see how 'god's will' is word waffle.

Isn't it strange how we scrutinise the intention of the LEA over and above the parent.

LEA 'it's gods will that your child doesn't have the support you think he needs'
You 'that's ridiculous, show me some evidence, back up your claim, substantiate your claim with some hard facts or I won't believe you'

Parent 'it's gods will that I do something that requires me to cause problems for my child'
You 'hallelujah!'

As a Christian I hold my hands up to being suspicious when I hear the words 'God called me' when it seems people are justifying what they have decided upon - worse examples I have heard include 'God called me to leave my wife and shag a 20 year old, because then I'd be happier and so would she in the end' and 'God has called me to stop my medication and trust in him instead'. That kind of insidious toxicity.

I usually find the words 'God's calling' to be about decisions people make re work and future, especially when it comes to clergy work, probably because the work in itself is generally described as 'a calling' - so by extension, every part of your life in that calling would be a calling in and of itself - iyswim.

It's really, really hard to define calling. Calling to the ordained ministry often happens to people who would least expect or desire it, and they often can't pinpoint a moment where they suddenly 'know' , one day waking up and thinking 'oh, I could be a vicar' - the process is often long and thought out, a slow dawning (for others, it is a sudden awareness.) A calling is like a feeling of being attracted to something I guess, something you can't get out of your head. Really difficult to describe, but for Christians it's a reality and not simply an excuse to justify our own actions and decisions, although some do use it in such a way, see above. It's our own responsibility to be....responsible about our calling and use of the terminology, I guess, not to bandy it around in any way we fancy or to justify ourselves. I would only use it if it was truth, to me, rather than to make myself feel better about my choice.

There is always choice. Calling doesn't cancel choice, but often clarifies choice, I suppose.

head I thought we were scrutinising the LEA over the parents, because most parents of sn children, fight to get provision and most of the barriers to that provision are the LEA rather than the parents.

I used the lea to show how it would be unacceptable for 'gods will' to be trotted out in any other situation and yet when people use it about personal decisions it's accepted. mad how are you to know it wasn't god's will that he shagged the 20 year old? Or stopped taking the medication? Remember Abraham? That's the problem with religion, you can justify anything as god's will when you suspend your own well earned logic.

mad hair, thats silly people just god blaming.
we could all do the same: god made me eat all the packets of McCoys cheese and onion crisps and a whole packet of custard creams. honest. God made me!!

I do know some very committed Christians and they say God asked them to do something, like give up their time to do something weekly, or to take on a weekly commitment to a holy communion \ baptism sessions\ leading the bible readings weekly etc etc. that they really didn't want to do, it wouldn't have been their free will choice.

As for the medication, you do realise it wasn't god who developed or provided the medication and that millions of humans have suffered because they didn't have it? If he wants you to take the medication why didn't he have a pharmacy in the garden of Eden? He used to be quite happy for people to die from these now treatable diseases, but now some of us have access to human developed medication he wants us to take it. How very decent of him. How magnanimous of him. I wonder if he now thinks he should have though of something like medicine himself!

my mum says that God has asked her to do a couple of things that she really questioned (and no one would really choose to do these things because they weren't particularly nice) but she felt God was really asking her to.

some things people do, they do out of love, they get no credit or recognition.

does that not count?

chaise people do selfless things for their communities all the time though without the need to be called by a supernatural force. It's called being kind. And what about times when god doesn't call someone to sort something out. It's great that god called Geoff to put the chairs out every week but why doesn't god call Peter to alert Social services that the guy over the road to him is abusing his 7 year old daughter.

That's it chaise, it's love, it's not supernatural. If you claim a supernatural motivator you make it harder for people to scrutinise.

Oh hih - you're quite right to make such comparisons. Christians shouldn't be using 'God's will' to justify just....stuff. I am very wary indeed of using 'God's will' in anything I say at all. Who am I to know? I endeavour to follow Jesus and his teachings, not to say it's God's will that I ate a curry for my dinner or certainly not that it's God's will that I am chronically ill (unfortunately some Christians do use it in such a way, and thus cause problems all over the place.)

'Calling' is personal and different to using the terminology 'God's will'. Heck it's complex. I would shy away from anyone using either term to justify anything that is against Christian tradition and practise, to be honest, so the medication and affair thing does stand in that sense.

I think the thread title and the actual thread itself are about 2 different things.

Firstly, regarding the title of the thread (not the situation the OP describes) Christians ARE called to put God first. That is a general principle, not about a specific situation. This means that following God is the top priority in their life. Other things/people can come first, be they spouses, children, money, career etc....this is what the Bibile calls idolatry - simply putting so eing else above God. It is a big and a hard call to Christians, but one where everything else falls into place. Makes me think of the hum words 'Seek ye first the kingdom of God' which talks about doing that and everything else falling into place and being right - that definitely doesn't mean children or families etc get less love, but more, because by loving God first, GOD ENABLES US TO LOVE THOSE AROUND US MORE. So there isn't a finite amount of love, which if given to God means there is less for the children. The children will actually get MORE LOVE when people put God first.

Secondly, about the situation in the thread itself, when people are in ministry or are serving God in yacht ever form, there are TIMES when children and family might have to take a back seat. So the Vicar might have to go to a Wednesdat night meeting and not be at home with his family. This seems okay. Christians as well as everyone else have to work to get a balance in their lives - enough time for serving and enough time for family, in the same way some people who work can spend too much time at work and not enough time at home, there is a struggle. It is a decision for individual families and there is no definite answer that X no of hours away from home at work or on a Church project is a cept able, but Y isn't. People have to decide. I do think that people need to take their families seriously and the Bibile is clear about responsibility towards family. This is t the same as always putting children first.
Re this thing about God giving people a 'calling' I do think that is true. There are all kinds of calling and some are easier to manage with a family than others. However if God has put people in families I think we can assume he wants them to operate as families and carrying out the calling will usually allow the family to continue as a family. Again there might be sacrifices involved for all of the family, from having less money, to someone being around less on occasions, to the family moving to a new area. Sometimes the 'costs' to children or family members might be quite big - parents have a responsibility to always weigh these and consider the impact of what they do on the children and ensure their behaviour is loving towards them. It is possible to do all these things and for the children to still thrive and in fact benefit hugely from seeing their parents involved in following Gods call. Getting the balance right is not easy and those involved in following a 'calling' need to review it frequently, accept that families make things different to following a calling alone, review the calling and the current action plan frequently and be willing to adjust the action plan if necessary.

I don't agree that children should always come first. For one thing the statement in itself is meaningless without further explanation. Does this mean children should have what they want (they often don't know or their judgement isn't mature enough to know what is best for them) or that what we perceive to be the best for children, should always trump what might be better for other family members (relies on us knowing what is best for. our children and sometimes we ourselves don't exactly know)
So for example, and to take it out of a religious context to make it easier for people to think about practically, imagine a situation when a parent is offered a contract abroad requiring a family move. The child will have to move school and start making friends again in a new place - is this the wrong move, because the child is settled and doing well In their current school and isn't keen to move and leave their friends. Is it not putting the child first to make the move and is it wrong? It is complex - moving might bring all kinds of new experiences for the family and child and it might draw the family together in their new experience together. There might be difficulties involved in settling, but overcoming these might bring the child skills of resilience and again a sense of having achieved something together with their family. Easy is not always best. Choosing to turn down the contract might keep the child at the current school, but mean one parent living away part of the time, or no later promotions, or....or..... We simply don't know. What I am saying is that e obvious thing isn't always the 'best' for the child and actually thinking about the 'best' for the family is usually best for the child too.

So, for Christians, I think that YES God does call us to put him first, for the reasons outlined above in my first section. If you're not a Christian, then understandably you won't put God first. Becoming a Christian in itself involves a u-turn from putting yourself or things you value yourself (perhaps children or family) to putting God first.

With individual issues and callings, I think people need to bear in mind how they can pursue that calling WITH a family, rather than to ignore the family. So some sacrifices might be necessary and are not in themselves a bad thing, but the balance and overall effect on children of course needs to kept firmly in mind. If this is done, then parents serving God can enhance the lives of children.

For people who aren't Christians or who are sceptical about God etc I can see it is difficult to think about these things are see them from the point of view of the believer. I would finish by saying simply that when people really love God and put him first, their overall capacity for love increases - and that means more, not less for the children!

I agree in general. I don't use the words 'God called me to donate to the foodbank', just donate to it like thousands of people of all faiths and none.

But then, I think we're all made in God's image and that means there is a load of good out there. Doesn't mean I think that people are 'only good because of God' of course. People do loads of good from their own effort and kindness. Where that comes from people can decide themselves. :)

That's what I was trying to get at too Chocolate - that in my experience 'putting God first' means my children come 'first' too - that there is no conflict between the two, because one means prioritising the other too.

There will always be those who exploit such terminology though, and justify them treating others badly, whether their own dc or not by saying they're putting God first.

Nothing to do with God - OP is just being goady.
Case 1 is work as PPs have said. People on here making moves for work/financial/social/immigration/emigration reasons all the time!!!

Case 2 not good but you don't know the details. Your brother got this from someone at the church, (via his kids?).

Headinhands hits the nail on the head - God seems to regularly sort out all my Christian friend's personal problems and yet that same God just let another friend (also religious) die of cancer last week leaving 3 kids without a mum.

God's a wanker.

Of course YABU.

totally agree with ChocolateWombat, that the title and thread are different.
You've described 2 families who have moved away from where they live, because one or more of their parents has a new job. Hardly unheard of, hardly cruel, rarely done on a whim, very often done after a lot of consideration about when would be the most appropriate time to make that move.

Sounds like you are either trying to provoke people of faith, or that you really have a very narrow social circle if you've not come across people moving areas because of their work