To think that your children should come before God?

[lbsjob87]

Before I start, I just want to say that while I'm not religious myself, I totally respect those who are, and am not criticising 99% of churchgoers (or equivalent).
But in the last week I have heard of two separate families where I just feel really sorry for the kids involved.

The first is an old school friend, married to a vicar, always been heavily involved with the church, as you may expect. She has 3 DC, 14, 12 and 5. Her DS1 (12yo) is very high functioning ASD. Her DS2 is in Reception year.

Until recently they lived and worked in a suburban parish in a medium sized city in the South. DS1 had various problems at primary school, exclusions, etc due to his later diagnosed ASD, and my friend ended up giving up her job at a local charity to be there for him as much as poss.

He eventually settled down in Year 7, as his new school was very geared up to help SEN kids, and started to make progress, and my friend was looking at going back to work p/t.
DS2 started school in Spetember, and apparently was loving it.

Then in November she put on Facebook that her husband had "had the calling" to basically up sticks and move to Manchester to continue God's work. So two weeks before Christmas, they moved to their new church, which is in a similar kind of neighbourhood as the last one, but obviously 300 miles away.

I sent her a note asking how they were settling in, she said her DD was upset at leaving her friends, but she'll "make more". She's Yr 10, so just starting Term 2 of her GCSEs, DS1 is trying hard to settle but has regressed into himself a lot, and DS2 was just upset because he couldn't do the school nativity because they pulled him out the week before, but was getting over it. She was very upbeat about it all, but also said she was a bit down at the mo.

So I had this conversation, then a few days later, my brother said his kids were going to a leaving party at their church for some friends. The parents have "had the calling" to give up their jobs and go and do missionary type work in Africa. They don't think it's a good idea to take their 7yo DD, because she is at school, so she's going to stay here with her GPs, but they are taking their 3yo and 14mo.

Just seriously, what is wrong with these people? That is 6 kids I know about who seem to be having their lives flipped upside down, due to their parents "calling". Surely their duty is to their own children above their beliefs? I can totally understand being heavily involved with church life, but it's the uprooting the entire family to do it - in both cases giving up existing jobs, so it's not to find work as such.

I should add that my judgement is clouded by the fact I had an ultra religious uncle who it later emerged abused two of my cousins because "God wanted them to make their dad happy." We didn't find out for years because they became more and more isolated from the family and move away every couple of years.

Not obviously suggesting that is the case here, but it does make me ultra aware of how children can sometimes be affected by the itinerant nature of this sort of lifestyle.

Also, for entirely different reasons, I moved around a lot as a kid and know how unsettling it is.

AIBU to feel sorry for these kids, or do I just not get it? It's none of my business, obviously, but I can still feel for them, can't I?

I'm the daughter of a vicar and now also married to one, so can see this from both points of view :)

As a child, we moved around a fair amount, and the most difficult move for me was when I was thirteen and moved from a leafy middle class area to what we were told was a sink estate with high levels of crime etc. I'm sure people looked at our situation and judged my parents for putting God before their children. In fact I know they did, because I've been told so. But, firstly, our parents didn't present it as a fait accompli. They told us we got to be in the decision making process, and we decided together. I didn't want to leave my friends, but felt that pull nonetheless. And in the end, I am forever grateful we went to that place, for myriad reasons, not the least that I met some wonderful people and saw many lives transformed to the good. It was a 'sink estate' but it was a fab place to live and fab people, and I ended up loving my time there. I wouldn't change it for the world.

I don't go for the order of priorities thing when it comes to God and my family. For me, putting God first means putting my husband and children first, there is no means by which they have to come second, because in my experience when I put God first God honours my family and our choices together. That doesn't mean everything is wonderful and nothing bad happens. Just that I don't see any conflict between 'God' and 'children' as such.

This means in practise that our dc are involved in all our decision making too. They haven't been dragged from place to place kicking and screaming, but consulted and loved. They would say that our last move was the hardest, but they have actually now made the best friends they've ever had here.

CofE contracts aren't always clear cut in terms of timing. Some are curacies which are 3-4 years. Some are then pioneer or chaplaincy posts which can be 5 years or longer, some are more open ended. Our current contract is 5 years but with a view to extension depending on a number of factors, not least funding. Our dd will be half way through Y10 when this contract ends, and because of this we will be pushing to extend it until she has done her GCSEs, but also because we feel 'called' if you like to be here longer. If we have to go, we would look carefully at me staying here until she's finished her GCSEs, because we do feel that honouring God is honouring our children as well - they go hand in hand. However, I also firmly believe that if we 'have' to move away, that dd will be fine - just as military kids are in their multiple moves.

Just trying to show it's not so clear cut.

The second family I find harder to get my head round, but can appreciate again it may not be clear cut, they may be thinking this is best for the 7yo at this moment. Loads of overseas missionary kids board back at home and join parents for holidays and are perfectly happy this way so they might be taking a view to do it this way. I don't know. DH was a missionary kid and grew up in Tanzania, absolutely loving the freedom of running round the village in and out of everyone's house, nicking peanuts in the field and gorging on avocados and papayas whenever he could pick them. He had a lovely childhood, getting to know people from many cultures as well as Tanzanians. He loves visiting west Africa now and feels there is a part of him there.

OP please do get your first post edited because the first family can be easily identified from it, believe me, and would not feel happy about being picked apart in this way on MN :(

I disagree with just about everything on this thread.
Your derogatory remarks about having the calling are presumably out of ignorance. And I am not particularly religious. If you believe it is gods will , then he will be doing it for the best, and you and your children benefit, although you can't see that at the time.

Are you so anti anyone ever moving house? Or for a job? You are foolish . I haven't moved for 15 years, but people do it every week and month. Children adapt.

This 'children are my everything'? Where did that rubbish come from. Who made you such a martyr? Children are only one member of your family. And without you and your husband also mattering, why should every decision in life revolve around children?

I believe that your idea of 'motherhood' is so squewed that as a generation, children of today are so self entitled, in generations to come, mothers like you will regret their stance.
If they don't, they should.

Everything? Both the pros and the against at the same time? And did you read the OP? It's not just about moving. It's about a SEN child and another young child being separated from his family.

And the person who mentioned the word: neglect.
Oh please. Please go and look
up what real neglect is, before you make any more really stupid comments.

You are degrading and insulting to what real neglect IS.

God save us from idiots like you.

And OP instead of blaming God, or parent-blaming the mother, fur not being nearly as good a mother as you? where is your vitriol for the school , the school system, the LEA , the 'system' in general, that do clearly failed, her ASD son?

Sorry Lweji. Instead of saying 'just about everything', I should of said 'most of' or 'alot of'.

if you believe it's gods will! then he will be doing it for the best

And you don't see any danger in that logic? I think that's the element that is concerning. That saying it's god's will means it's the right decision regardless of any detrimental consequences.

I am very interested in this, as the child of parents who have always used 'God calling them' as the reason for whatever random thing they wanted to do. (Or had to do, because they had fucked up all other options.) And to prevent any debate on the matter, as one or two posters have very rightly identified.

OP, YANBU at all. My parents moved us at key points in my growing-up years, and it affected my life hugely. My father was minister of a series of churches - a mix of different denominations, not CofE. The priority was entirely what they wanted (which coincided neatly with God's will), and very little thought was given to how the DCs (me and my DB) would-be affected. They had choices - they definitely did.

Moving per se may not be a problem for most children. But some need a lot of support from their parents to manage transitions, and my own parents didn't recognise this at all. We never felt like we 'belonged' anywhere.

Now that I have DCs of my own, I would think long and hard before uprooting them, and would involve them in the decision (they are school age). I wouldn't do it unless I was totally certain it would be the right thing for them, and their needs would be met. That wasn't the case in my own childhood - and seems not to be the case with the families that OP knows. But I have no intention of moving them anywhere. Because of my upbringing (and my parents are still moving around, have never settled anywhere), stability is massively important to me.

I think op was focussing on the parents decision themselves in their post. Maybe they are unsatisfied with the LEA, who knows, but what they appreared to want to examine was people using the excuse of 'gods work' to make decisions that affect other people. If the LEA said 'we feel it's gods will that your child doesn't have 1:1 support' would you say 'fair enough'.

I thought the responses were pretty even on both sides, so not sure how you can say even the majority. You should have just said what position you agreed with, chaise.

It does matter what society can do for the SEN child, but are their parents?
And the 7 year old separated from the siblings and parents, while siblings stay with the parents? Not sure that child will be unemotionally detached to think it is a good idea.

Headinhands, but yes, my understanding is that that really is the point.

God asks you to do because he has a higher vision, for the end goal, and your part is only a small part, of it.
And it may be tough. Or have tough bits. But you play your part, complete your part of the bigger picture.
And he never gives you're than you can cope with.

Have I got that right?

Now, you may not agree with any of that.
But I THINK that is how believers see it.

Oh ok.
So what you are actually talking about is shit parenting.

And parents being totally selfish -
And self centred!!
And instead of taking responsibility for that, parents blame someone or something else.
Like God!!

That about sums it up. :)

I'm sure that's how believers see it - because the easier thing in the world, when making a decision which is going to impact adversely on your children and family, is to bring someone or something into the equation to justify your actions and absolve yourself of blame.

God doesn't ask you to do anything, let's face it. You may believe that a particular course of action is the best one in order to serve God, but he/she doesn't ask anything of anyone - for obvious reasons.

sirChen, no I'm sure you've got that wrong.
I'm sure that many believers believe that have been asked to do things.

YABU. If he wasn't a vicar, but lets say an engineer/doctor/journalist who got an amazing job offer, would you dare to criticise?

No, I'm sure I've not got that wrong. God has not called them to do anything - they have called themselves to the task.

Headinhands that's not fair:
LEA's have a legal and statutory duty to follow the education Act, comply with public laws. Etc.

So if they said to me it was gods will, I ask them to prove that it was actually gods will. Do they have gods written instruction?
And ask them if they had been lawful, fair , reasonable etc in complying with public laws.

Is it an amazing job offer? All we know is that he believes that his God has called him.

Even if it was an amazing job offer he'd still be splitting up a family and impacted negatively on the education of a child with SEN. I can't imagine putting my work before my family in that way, nor would DH.

Really Chen?
Where's the person who knows all about the 'calling' when you need them????!!!!

If a career prospect called, it would be more acceptable than God's calling? And being a vicar is also a career.

As you've already said Chaise, God's don't provide written instructions and no proof is forthcoming.

I'm going with the 'I feel it is my calling, therefore I am blameless', as opposed to an actual, real, tangible divine calling.

My husband is the son of a Vicar and as a child had to move with his family from the South East to the North West and then 7years later to East Anglia.

As far as I'm aware his dad had little choice about where his next "posting" would be and he had to move every 7 years as this was the accepted way of things. It was his job and just like any other job you have to do what you are told or risk losing it!

DH was bullied for his northern accent when he moved down south and was also bullied just for being the vicars kid so he did suffer for his dad's choice of vocation.

I'm an atheist but I don't see that his parents were putting their God before their children anymore than my DH is putting money / security before our children when he works long hours. ( my DS really struggles emotionally when DH is away or working late but we just have to deal with the fall out as best we can)

Just like any other parents with a demanding job I'm sure the parents in the OP are doing the best that they can for their children.

It would depend on whether you felt the corporate calling (which, unlike the divine calling is actually real, and does come with written instructions) was more important than keeping your young family together and ensuring your child with SEN wasn't adversely impacted.

The crucial difference is that you would be required to take responsibility for your actions as opposed to absolving yourself of blame, because it's 'God's will'

And on that note I have received the calling of the God of commercialism, and am off to the shops. As God will provide, I'm planning to spend wildly