To think that your children should come before God?

[lbsjob87]

Before I start, I just want to say that while I'm not religious myself, I totally respect those who are, and am not criticising 99% of churchgoers (or equivalent).
But in the last week I have heard of two separate families where I just feel really sorry for the kids involved.

The first is an old school friend, married to a vicar, always been heavily involved with the church, as you may expect. She has 3 DC, 14, 12 and 5. Her DS1 (12yo) is very high functioning ASD. Her DS2 is in Reception year.

Until recently they lived and worked in a suburban parish in a medium sized city in the South. DS1 had various problems at primary school, exclusions, etc due to his later diagnosed ASD, and my friend ended up giving up her job at a local charity to be there for him as much as poss.

He eventually settled down in Year 7, as his new school was very geared up to help SEN kids, and started to make progress, and my friend was looking at going back to work p/t.
DS2 started school in Spetember, and apparently was loving it.

Then in November she put on Facebook that her husband had "had the calling" to basically up sticks and move to Manchester to continue God's work. So two weeks before Christmas, they moved to their new church, which is in a similar kind of neighbourhood as the last one, but obviously 300 miles away.

I sent her a note asking how they were settling in, she said her DD was upset at leaving her friends, but she'll "make more". She's Yr 10, so just starting Term 2 of her GCSEs, DS1 is trying hard to settle but has regressed into himself a lot, and DS2 was just upset because he couldn't do the school nativity because they pulled him out the week before, but was getting over it. She was very upbeat about it all, but also said she was a bit down at the mo.

So I had this conversation, then a few days later, my brother said his kids were going to a leaving party at their church for some friends. The parents have "had the calling" to give up their jobs and go and do missionary type work in Africa. They don't think it's a good idea to take their 7yo DD, because she is at school, so she's going to stay here with her GPs, but they are taking their 3yo and 14mo.

Just seriously, what is wrong with these people? That is 6 kids I know about who seem to be having their lives flipped upside down, due to their parents "calling". Surely their duty is to their own children above their beliefs? I can totally understand being heavily involved with church life, but it's the uprooting the entire family to do it - in both cases giving up existing jobs, so it's not to find work as such.

I should add that my judgement is clouded by the fact I had an ultra religious uncle who it later emerged abused two of my cousins because "God wanted them to make their dad happy." We didn't find out for years because they became more and more isolated from the family and move away every couple of years.

Not obviously suggesting that is the case here, but it does make me ultra aware of how children can sometimes be affected by the itinerant nature of this sort of lifestyle.

Also, for entirely different reasons, I moved around a lot as a kid and know how unsettling it is.

AIBU to feel sorry for these kids, or do I just not get it? It's none of my business, obviously, but I can still feel for them, can't I?

You are being judgy! Let people live their life's how they want. Imo it's got nothing to do with God, I know someone who's 1 year old lives in India with grandparents, while the parents love and work in London, just a choice family are not religious. Plenty of kids go to boarding schools - I would think that's not very different to leaving kid with gp. Especially now where there are cheap flights and skype.

I think when you aren't immersed in a church yourself it can be hard to understand people's strong beliefs on these things. I was always taught at church and Sunday school that God should always come before your own family (hence the emphasis placed on the story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his only son), and that choosing to put your children's happiness, or your own, or your spouse's, is actually allowing satan to tempt you from the correct path. If you haven't been immersed in that mindset, it can be hard to understand just how much people agonise over these things. I've known people to do things, as they believe it to be their calling, that have frankly made them miserable (eg give up paid employment) but they feel they have no choice but to do it.

Personally I would put my children first, but then I have been told in no uncertain terms by some that my attitude means that I don't actually believe in God and there can therefore be no hope of heaven for me. Which is pretty depressing.

As a friend of a vicars daughter for two years i can inform you they are only giving a short term contract then moved to another church. She just started her gcses then they got moved up north. They just accepted it as part of church life and throw a huge going away party.

My parents were and are like this.

It goes

God
Husband/Wife

Children

They're going through a particularly strong 'prayer heals everything' phase and if you don't pray and believe you've only got yourself to blame. They spend a lot of time ill in bed and then having a week of being miraculously healed.

Sorry op derailed your thread.

I think the vicar one might be out of his control but the second one is unusual. At least when my parents decided to be missionaries when we were children they took us with them.

There are lots of lovely religious people in this world and then there are the others... but I'm jaded so take no notice.

Ooo interesting thread. Ok I'm a Christian and here's my order of priorities

1. god
2. husband
3. children

This seems controversial from the bare facts but let me explain. If I love god then I believe in loving others as myself therefore husband and kids. If I put my relationship with my husband as a priority then I'm showing my kids a good example and they get a stable environment.
Now. Different question. Would u uproot my kids for missionary stuff? Prob not. My understanding is that God has 'called me' if ya like to be a wife and mother. That's first and foremost.
Military aside, the ppl I know whose parents felt god was calling them all over the place have not become Christians themselves.
Ps the thing with the uncle is awful and makes me absolutely livid.

But surely in the first case the family would be able to say to the powers that be in the Church that their son has high-functioning autism and needs to stay put for longer?

Or you could love all equally but in different ways?

We were very aware of the hierarchy growing up. It's not an example any of us siblings have chosen for our families though.

But it might work for your family.

My family moved several times while I was a child due to my Dad's job.

My best friend's parents were in the military and moved internationally several times. She and her sister as went to (different!) boarding schools quite young.

At school I had friends whose families were on sabbatical in the UK from the US, Israel, Australia, India, Italy and Hong Kong.

Next year it is likely that we will be relocating internationally with my DH's company. The children aren't keen but we'll go anyway.

Your OP very much reads like you are blinded by your dislike of the church. Relocating for your job is pretty common.

Leaving your child behind is more unusual but not unheard of, military families do it all the time - better GPs than boarding school.

IME Church of England vicars, unlike Catholic Priests, do not get moved around just like that. If they did it would be within their own Diocese. He would have had to apply for that job. Actual Vicar-with-a-parish jobs are less plentiful than they were, a lot of vicars are non-stipendiary these days (paid for what they do). There would have been a lot of people after that parish.

There might have been other reasons they do not wish to share with you. They might have secretly detested the parish they were in . They might think the school they have found for their DS is even better for his needs. etc etc

Roundtable. It's not something I would ever say to my kids only on mn ;-)

Not going to comment much on the first family, but I do think you're being a bit U with them.

I'm shocked at the second family leaving their seven year old behind! We are Brits working for a Christian organisation in Africa and have lived here (including breaks to the UK) since our oldest (now 6) was 2.5. In that time I have never encountered any missionary family (and I know lots) who would consider for a moment leaving a young child behind. That sort of thing happened 50 years ago. It is not common now. I do know of families who have returned to their home country because their children needed medical care or educational care they couldn't easily get where they are working. This is because the vast majority of us regard care of our families as being as much part of our ministry as whatever work we are doing, and recognise that it's possible to serve God anywhere, and doing many different things. It's also common for people to return to their home country to help care for elderly parents.

I'm a child protection trainer for our organisation, and our child protection policy regards parents leaving young children for extended periods to "do ministry" as a form a child neglect. It simply would not be allowed in our organisation. The decision to leave a seven year old behind is nothing to do with a "calling". It's just bad parenting, however much the parents try to kid themselves.

As to the idea that it's wrong to go and work overseas with young children, our children have a very rich (in the sense of interesting and varied) life here. Their friends are African, American, Canadian, Dutch, Australian, Swiss, etc. They are so much more aware of different cultures than their friends in the UK are. Our two year old can ask for a drink or something to eat in two languages. They pick fruit from trees in the garden when they fancy a snack. They have got to watch a chameleon change colour in the garden. They have more space to play outside safely here. I could go on and on. Most importantly, they have things they love about here and things they love about the UK and they are learning how to move between cultures and value (and perhaps criticise) things about each one.

I thought if the military too - and the heaps of criticism that is piled regularly on any of them who express a preference for boarding schools, precisely because they know moves can be disruptive for DC and they want to give them a stable set of school friends.

Vicars get posted. Missionaries move around the world. Different families make different choices whether or not their DC board, and if so from what age.

I think the thread title is goady btw. God's calling is a normal speech habit. And reflection and prayer are app part of it.

If you think these are individual tosspots acting irreligiously and selfishly abusing the normal phraseology, that's quite a different starting point to the one the title suggests to me.

C of E is different, as Balloonsayer says. FIL is a C of E vicar. You apply for jobs in the same way as anyone else as a position comes vacant, but the jobs tend to be few and far between so if you feel you need to move on then you have to apply for what is available. FIL stayed at one particular parish for years so OH and BiL could stay at the same school through their secondary years and then took a new job. I have no idea about other denominations though. Neither BTW goes to church or believes.

A family member is married to a vicar and they have moved parishes a few times since they have been together, but always where (subject to the husband being offered the job) and when they chose. It's really not like the military in that respect.

I agree with the op that:

• first family: as the ds' special needs were being met and everything else was in place, it was unreasonable for the family to completely uproot.

• second family: peculiar and quite nasty!

I agree with the poster who said that attributing these decisions to God's will, no matter how sincere their faith, is essentially abandoning personal responsibility, in theses two cases to their own young and vulnerable children.

I agree with the poster who said there is s lot of identifying detail about the families in your OP. I would not be happy to see my life laid out like this for discussion on the Internet and accessible to parishioners etc,

You can feel for the children of course, but it could well be misplaced.

A five year old is not going to be damaged by not getting to be in a nativity play, and while the situation is not ideal for the older ones just now, in the grand scheme of things their parents really aren't doing them any harm.

They sound like good loving parents, and you have no idea of the benefits they might be providing their children with long term by moving.

I can understand judging other parents on the choices they make for their children, it's human nature even when we know it's none of our business, but I don't think it makes any sense to judge the parents you are speaking of. They might not be making the choices you would make, but they are doing what they believe is right for their family as a whole, which is all anyone can be expected to do. There are far far worse examples of parenting for you to judge negatively if you want to.

Interesting views.

I apologise if people thought I was being goady, that wasn't my intention. I just couldn't imagine a life where another entity could come above my children (my husband would also rank second to them, as that's just my belief).

I have no issue at all with people moving away from their roots - the first family weren't living anywhere near their roots anyway. I am just concerned that they seem to have come so far with their son and I hope for him that they have made the right move and that this is just a blip for him. We moved around a lot as kids too and I found it harder as an adult to settle. It took me over a year to unpack in my first house as I was used to moving on again.

As for the second family, as I said, I don't know them, my brother does. He gets the impression that most of their friends think it's an odd decision as well, but the parents believe it's better for her to continue at her usual school. Whether they intend it to be short term or for them to find her a school there, I don't know but I personally couldn't imagine feeling a need to look after other people overwhelming my need to look after my own child.

That's my point, I guess.

It sounds like your feelings about these families choices is more about how you feel about your own upbringing then, rather than about what's best for them or their children.

My family upped sticks when I was 7, 10, 13, and I managed to overcome the experience. Work related every time. It's par for the course for many children, whatever the reason for it, and you should take off your jduge's wig and MYOB.

It's another form of moving for a job. Some moves are for necessity, some are for better prospects or quality of life.

I am fairly religious and I agree that this is not about God or religion, but the parents' choices.

When I decided to move countries for work it was thinking of economic stability for the family, and it meant we were actually closer to wider family than until that point.

I might go elsewhere for work, or charity work, but not if it meant leaving a child behind. Particularly if both parents are going and particularly if other siblings are going too.

I don't know about vicars, but he'd have a good strong point to present to his bishop to stay in that area, even if to a different parish within commuting distance to the child's school.

So, I don't think you are being unreasonable.

If you choose to move for better prospects or quality of life then you take responsibility for that move, taking into consideration the impact it will have on your family (or most people would), and deciding - using your own free will and thought - whether it really would be for the best for you and your family.

To absolve yourself of any responsibility by claiming that the God you believe in called you to move does not sit well with me - so I'm completely with you OP. If the God I believed in called me to move across the world or to another part of the country - which would mean breaking up my family, or destroying the stability I had worked hard to achieve for my child with SEN, then I would be calling "no way, Jose" back at him/her.