To think that your children should come before God?

[lbsjob87]

Before I start, I just want to say that while I'm not religious myself, I totally respect those who are, and am not criticising 99% of churchgoers (or equivalent).
But in the last week I have heard of two separate families where I just feel really sorry for the kids involved.

The first is an old school friend, married to a vicar, always been heavily involved with the church, as you may expect. She has 3 DC, 14, 12 and 5. Her DS1 (12yo) is very high functioning ASD. Her DS2 is in Reception year.

Until recently they lived and worked in a suburban parish in a medium sized city in the South. DS1 had various problems at primary school, exclusions, etc due to his later diagnosed ASD, and my friend ended up giving up her job at a local charity to be there for him as much as poss.

He eventually settled down in Year 7, as his new school was very geared up to help SEN kids, and started to make progress, and my friend was looking at going back to work p/t.
DS2 started school in Spetember, and apparently was loving it.

Then in November she put on Facebook that her husband had "had the calling" to basically up sticks and move to Manchester to continue God's work. So two weeks before Christmas, they moved to their new church, which is in a similar kind of neighbourhood as the last one, but obviously 300 miles away.

I sent her a note asking how they were settling in, she said her DD was upset at leaving her friends, but she'll "make more". She's Yr 10, so just starting Term 2 of her GCSEs, DS1 is trying hard to settle but has regressed into himself a lot, and DS2 was just upset because he couldn't do the school nativity because they pulled him out the week before, but was getting over it. She was very upbeat about it all, but also said she was a bit down at the mo.

So I had this conversation, then a few days later, my brother said his kids were going to a leaving party at their church for some friends. The parents have "had the calling" to give up their jobs and go and do missionary type work in Africa. They don't think it's a good idea to take their 7yo DD, because she is at school, so she's going to stay here with her GPs, but they are taking their 3yo and 14mo.

Just seriously, what is wrong with these people? That is 6 kids I know about who seem to be having their lives flipped upside down, due to their parents "calling". Surely their duty is to their own children above their beliefs? I can totally understand being heavily involved with church life, but it's the uprooting the entire family to do it - in both cases giving up existing jobs, so it's not to find work as such.

I should add that my judgement is clouded by the fact I had an ultra religious uncle who it later emerged abused two of my cousins because "God wanted them to make their dad happy." We didn't find out for years because they became more and more isolated from the family and move away every couple of years.

Not obviously suggesting that is the case here, but it does make me ultra aware of how children can sometimes be affected by the itinerant nature of this sort of lifestyle.

Also, for entirely different reasons, I moved around a lot as a kid and know how unsettling it is.

AIBU to feel sorry for these kids, or do I just not get it? It's none of my business, obviously, but I can still feel for them, can't I?

Oh, and in the C of S, Revs stay in parishes for years too, and apply for jobs as in other careers.

Agree with zzzz. I moved around a lot - 10 schools, my younger siblings went to more. I lived with GPs for three years as a young teenager because I didn't want to leave that school. I then boarded at a different school. My father was in the forces.

Never once thought I was neglected because of that - that was just how we (and lots of people we knew) lived.

I don't think anyone follows a random "calling"

It's more a form of shorthand for 'this is what is exactly right for us to do now, and we believe in it with every fibre of my being".

So it is much more likely to be move that has been deeply considered, and meditated upon. I've known people move with far less consideration that goes in to the exploration of a religious vocation.

It is different for a teenager to choose to stay with GP and the school/friends, than for a 7 year old (with no choice in the matter) to be left behind when everyone else is moving.
I also moved, with no problems, and my DS adapted really well too. But this is for "normal" children.
If your child has trouble with school and has finally found one they fit in well, would you want to disrupt that? For a very similar job, just in a different area? It makes me wonder if this vicar has had problems at his current place. Or is just a total arse as a father.

Is a move that means breaking up a family and disrupting the stability of a child with SEN be the best thing for 'us' or best thing for 'me'?

I suspect the latter - and by using the old "God's calling" you are absolved of personal and parental responsibility.

This is why the Catholic Church doesn't allow its priests to marry.
Because family would have to come first and the parish needs have to be first priority.

I disagree with imposing religion on children at all
My parents although not in the ministry themselves were deeply religious and their beliefs and involvement with their local church and other religious charities ruled all our lives
I'm not talking of any kind of cult here either - as children we had no choice in this any kind of social life or other friendships were impossible - sometimes even school work suffered - I remember having to sit in a corner at gatherings trying to do my homework or revise for exams
I managed to escape when I left home at 16
My parents still put the church/charity before their family for example going abroad to a church conference because they felt called despite my brother being desperately ill and needing them around

About the Catholic church, it is very much debated still and will probably eventually move towards removing the obligatory vows of chastity when priests are ordained.
The fact that a priest can't marry creates a whole new set of problems. Not least of all having to completely leave the parish and priesthood if they want to get married.
Having children is not that different from those in the armed forces, or doctors who have to be on call at odd hours. Or other shift workers.

Moving to Manchester is one thing - hey, nothing wrong with Manchester - but moving to Africa and leaving one of your children behind is quite another.

YANBU, I think the parents are being selfish in both cases. And the ones going to Africa and leaving a young child when they don't have to are strange aswell as selfish.

Well, we don't know what else has gone into the decision, do we?

Judging on partial information is often not a good idea.

Loading too much onto one second-or-more-hand hearsay phrase strikes me as particularly unwise. Though I realise that the choice of title encourages people, to focus on that, rather than on the wider circumstances (which are not fully known to OP).

All our parish vicars have stayed until they've either retired or chosen to move elsewhere.

Both lots of parents are being selfish.

God's calling? I am an atheist, but if there was a God, I'd rather hope he'd want the best for the children, not random adults in parishes/Africa... So it sounds to me, like the decisions of mere mortals to me.

Moving to Africa is fine. I know a few people who have done it with their families. It's the leaving the 7 year old behind that I disagree with.

We don't need to AuntiEStella. The first lot are uprooting the teen DC midway through the GCSE year, their child with SN from a brilliant school & not even waiting a week or two for their youngest to finish the term and do his nativity.

The second lot are leaving a 7 yo here and taking two younger siblings.

There isn't a scrap of 'other information' that could make either of those situations acceptable as far as I'm concerned.

'Had the calling' is vicar speak for being sent to a new parish, it isn't an option it's part of their contract. Lots of parents have to relocate due to work commitments.

I thought the Catholic Church introduced celibacy so that the church would receive the estate of a priest when he died?

It was all about the money.

That was to amidaiwish by the way.

Not sure if it was about keeping the estate, as typically it was second sons who'd go to the church because they didn't inherit. But I'm sure they wouldn't want the extra economic burden of women and children.

Or just a nice cop out for men who didn't actually want to take on the responsibility of marrying the mother of their children.

You are being completely U and horribly judgy about your friend. For all you know your friend's husband has been asked to leave his former parish for whatever reason and she is trying to put a brave face on it. Or there may have been some problem with the congregation or local diocese which they found intolerable and so they moved - they probably wouldn't say anything about it to anyone else if that was the case. I have known parishes be so toxic that the vicar ends up feeling the only option is to leave. Or he may have had a fixed term contract. Or he may just be an arsehole.

Other than that, it's no different to anyone else moving with a change of job. Yes it's sometimes inconvenient for children's education and it is harder with SEN in the mix, but it's rarely the end of the world. From what you say they are obviously loving committed parents if she gave up her job to support her son, so I'm sure they will make things work out.

The missionary case is pretty unusual and I am surprised that such a young child would be left behind, but perhaps it is temporary until they can find education for the child where they are going. You really don't know enough about it to judge here.

The thing is Catholic priests did used to marry (and particularly so in the Celtic church) but that all changed in the Middle Ages I think?

I'm sure I read that it was about keeping money in the church... But I'm not a historian!

Nothing is the end of the world - except the end of the world. There are, however, a myriad of other things in between that are so far from ideal that you'd be mad to consider them. Splitting up your family and moving to Africa without your young child, for example, or disrupting the life and education of a child with SEN after finally getting to a point that they were settled. You don't get another chance at raising your family. God, on the other hand, has been around for a while (if you believe in him, of course) - the Church will not crumble without one Vicar.

We don't know what the full circumstances are, of course not - but that's the way things work on MN. If we required all parties under discussion to submit a full report before we discussed the merits of their actions then it would lengthen (and narrow) proceedings somewhat

People move about, I get that, children sometimes have to move, that's acceptable. But saying 'I have to do this because god has told me' and thereby blocking any dissent, that's unacceptable and dangerous. A question for the Christians who believe god does call people to do specific things, at what point would and do you believe them? And as someone up thread mentioned earlier, god asked Abraham to kill Issac, and Abraham almost did. Yet their religion was against human sacrifice as the bible criticises that element of other religions of the time. So even though Abraham knew god was against human sacrifice he was just about to kill him. And that's good? See obedience isn't good, obedience is switching off your own values. Obedience is parroting what the bible says about same sex love and ignoring the conclusion that logical thought leads you to.

And no one needs to hear about another god, they need shelter, food, education and healthcare. I'm sure many missionaries do this work too, but many people do it without saying 'if you love this god then he will be nice to you'. Why does person A with children in the UK need to go, god made the universe right, surely he can find someone local to do what needs doing?

OP, why don't you just ask your friend why they moved if it is bothering you so much? I wouldn't really want a friend who was silently judging me in the way you are - if you are close enough can't you just ask her? Something may have happened that she could use your support on.