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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that having children is not a "lifestyle choice"

437 replies

YorkshireTeaGold · 21/01/2015 12:19

Sooo, saw a thread on aibu where the op complained about childcare costs and was told by another poster that she shouldn't complain as having kids was a lifestyle choice.

I've heard this so many times recently, both on mn and in rl and it massively pisses me off! My father actually told me not to complain about morning sickness as I wanted children.

I have 2 dcs and think that this is just maintaining the equilibrium of the world. Reproduction is a biological need, like eating or survival, it's not like taking up golf or buying a yacht. I can see maybe having no kids could be a lifestyle choice for some, as could having 9. But a couple? Not a lifestyle choice.

Plus it hides a political issue in that it's really difficult to afford to bring up children atm. I did a online check (think it was in the guardian) and dh and I are 75th centile for earnings. However 1/3 of this goes on the mortgage, 1/3 on childcare and 1/3 to barely cover the bills. It's ridiculous that this is the case, and if only people who truely afforded it had kids then it'd just be an elite minority reproducing. The government should organise the country so an average family can afford to buy a house and work.

OP posts:
Iveabsolutelynofekkingideadoi · 21/01/2015 20:30

Do people honestly think having a sahp or childcare pays for itself and do people really think others are responsible for their temporary years of austerity when paying for childcare? I

No.

Purplefrogeatsalily · 21/01/2015 20:31

You have a choice... Hence it is a choice. It affects your lifestyle- as you will know as parent. Hence it is a lifestyle choice. Simples.

Spybot · 21/01/2015 20:35

"Lifestyle choice" makes me think of swingers, polygamists, nudists etc. Is that just me?! It does not make me think of people who have a couple of children, like most humans before us. Saying that, when folks have loads of kids - over 4, I start thinking of it as more of a lifestyle choice as it is so different from the majority.

Crockofgold · 21/01/2015 20:39

Of course it's a lifestyle choice.

Whether it's a biological imperative or not, you still choose to have children.

People who can't conceive may not choose to be childless but their experience has no relevance on other people's choices I'm afraid.

Alpacacino · 21/01/2015 20:48

Those who say it is a "lifestyle choice" which is b* - what about the children themselves?

Without help from society as a whole, they would be innocent bearers of the consequences of their parents' "lifestyle choice".

If a condom burst and an abortion was just too much to take, if a child is left with only one parent or a parent who is too ill to work, if redundancy throws a family into poverty...with whom does responsibility lie, then?

This "lifestyle choice" logic is insidious.it would be possible to argue "Yes, there was an earthquake in Haiti, people are dying like flies, but hey, it was their lifestyle choice to live in an earthquake-prone area and to build houses that cannot withstand earthquakes. So d'uh!"

SlaggyIsland · 21/01/2015 20:50

Soontobesix what a fucking offensive statement.

tilliebob · 21/01/2015 20:53

I haven't read the thread yet but I had 3 dcs because we wanted them, we can sometimes afford them and we wanted a family. Nothing to do with keeping the family name going, doing my philanthropic did to keep the population going or any other reason. The reason we have 3 dcs and not the 6 or 8 I would have loved is because we couldn't afford them. I think having children is a biological urge and a lifestyle choice. Otherwise myself and many of my friends would have far far more children. No one should have children expecting anyone else including the state to pick up the tab for them.

ihategeorgeosborne · 21/01/2015 20:58

Having children is definitely a lifestyle choice. I have 3 and it was my choice. I knew that having 3 children would significantly alter my lifestyle, therefore a lifestyle choice. My sister has not had any children. She wanted to keep her lifestyle as it was, therefore, her lifestyle choice.

polyhymnia · 21/01/2015 20:59

A lifestyle choice, for sure.

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 21:01

you don't chose to live in a earthquake zone if your born there, your born there!! you have the choice to leave if you wish, but understandibly many don't because that's where their family is and there native land, moving from say the UK to Haiti would be a choice...Hmm

you have the choice to not have children in most cases, one of my friends has made that choice. she's 40+ and her and her partner have been married for over 20years and chose not to have children. My other friend is in her mid 30's and has 3 adorable children all her and her partners choice. Her husband didn't girate his testicles towards her and strut about like a peacock at her fertile time and she didn't wiggle her bottom at him in some sort of ritualistic mating dance in the bedroom once a month Hmm.

Alpacacino · 21/01/2015 21:09

Her husband didn't girate his testicles towards her and strut about like a peacock at her fertile time and she didn't wiggle her bottom at him in some sort of ritualistic mating dance in the bedroom once a month.

And she still got pregnant? Maybe it would be wise to do a paternity test...do the kids look like her husband at all?

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 21:12

there on Jeremy Kyle next week Grin Grin

happy2bamummy · 21/01/2015 21:18

It's a choice, but driven by a need, which not everyone has. And why can't we complain and the ridiculous cost of living vs income.

duplodon · 21/01/2015 21:18

Okay then, so where do you draw a line? Is being actively gay a lifestyle choice? I mean, you don't have to have sex with anyone. Is wanting to live in a house with running water a lifestyle choice? It's perfectly possible to live well without it. Is education a lifestyle choice? Millions of people worldwide don't have it, and live their lives. How about treating cancer? There are many people who choose not to, with perfectly valid reasons.

Lifestyle choice somehow implies frivolity, as opposed to "something you could validly choose not to do, but is felt to be beneficial by quite a large number of human beings".

iniquity · 21/01/2015 21:26

I think lifestyle choice is a kind of very white middle class term. We've already agreed it doesn't apply to developing countries. In all honesty I can't imagine that they are many other cultures that would consider children a life style choice.
I think it just encompasses the very middle class idea of having life experiences normally until your thirties then dramatically altering your life style to have children once all the boxes are ticked. This simply doesnt apply to all parents and all cultures.

Alpacacino · 21/01/2015 21:27

duplodon I agree with that (even though i don't think you can live well without running water, but certainly you can live).

Ginger my earthquake analogy was meant to illustrate the moral wrongness of refusing to help people who are in trouble just because, theoretically, they could have done things differently and had a better outcome.

happy Yes, why should we not complain? It's a democratic right, isn't it!

Bunbaker · 21/01/2015 21:33

"It's a choice, but driven by a need, which not everyone has"

The "need" to have children is an alien concept to me. I thought I couldn't have children until I got pregnant with DD. I can honestly say that I have never, ever felt the "need" to have children.

I am in the camp that believes that for most people having children is a lifestyle choice. I know that not all children are planned and life doesn't always go to plan, but it is usually a choice these days.

MoanCollins · 21/01/2015 21:36

Um, YANBU and YABU. I agree with you that reproducing shouldn't simply be limited to an elite and that families should be supported, not least because as a country we need to renew our population and our children will be working to support and nurse us when we're old. The population of the planet may be growing but this country isn't except for via immigration.

But I do think to a certain extent you have to accept that when you have children you make sacrifices and you simply won't have as much disposable income as childless people. And I do hate parents who have children then martyr themselves to it as if it's a terrible burden which has been imposed on them, I think that's terrible for the kids too, being made to feel they ruined their parents lives.

HairyOrk · 21/01/2015 21:36

YABU it's a choice, of course its a choice.
And I can't think of a single argument against it being an incredibly selfish choice too - the world is overpopulated as it is.
I don't have a problem with people having children, I want them myself, but I recognise it for what it is.

educationrocks1 · 21/01/2015 21:36

Having sex is a choice. Wether you're gay is irrelevant. You are correct you don't have to have sex with anyone.
Living in a house in the U.K with running water is not a lifestyle choice because it comes with most houses, it will be a lifestyle choice to choose to live without. However, if you were living in say Ghana, then yes having running water would be a lifestyle choice. (By the way have ever lived in a house with running water? Millions of people worldwide don't have it, and live their lives Yes, by the skin of their teeth!
Am Unsure how receiving cancer treatment is on par with the decision to have children. Many of your analogies are really don't make sense.

Alpacacino · 21/01/2015 21:42

However, if you were living in say Ghana, then yes having running water would be a lifestyle choice.

How THE HELL can you claim that having running water would be a lifestyle choice for the average Ghanaian?!? They are just going to phone their water provider and ask for a pipe to be connected, yes?!?

BackforGood · 21/01/2015 21:43

The issue seems to have turned into a matter of people's definition of the term 'lifestyle choice', whereas the point in the first place was the the OP of the other thread, referenced in this OP {you with me still? Grin} was suggesting that "the taxpayer" should subsidise the decisions that she had made, which were to have 2 dc, fairly close together in age, and to go back to work so she could sustain her career. The point was, that most people said she had chosen all those things, so it was her responsibility to plan the finance round them.....ie, her choice of how her life will pan out for the next couple of years.....seems like that is why people are using the term lifestyle choice to describe having dc.

Ive - yes, we have 3 dc and we chose to have them and really struggle financially when they were young (before 3 yr old funding or tax credits or childcare vouchers or long maternity leaves), and yes, I'd call that a lifestyle choice as it's what we chose to do with our lives faced with all the contributing factors at the time.

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 21:44

dup you can't say being gay is a choice, it isn't, it's attraction Hmm nobody chooses who at what they are attracted to, that is innate. ithink it's rather insulting to infer that gay people chose to be gay, especially with the horrible homophobic comments they encounter. No one would chose to be ostracized and insulted from society. Suppose you think those poor men in Iraq thrown from a rooftop by ISIS chose their fate!!

having children is a choice, the same way not having them is. DS however like I said wasn't a choice but a suprise, I wasn't trying for DS wasn't prepared to have a child, but I had one. I had the choice to abort DD but chose not to. it was all choice

AlecTrevelyan006 · 21/01/2015 21:45

The point of life is life itself. As a species we are here to survive and reproduce. Everything else is secondary.

QueenInTheNorth · 21/01/2015 21:46

YABU - It is a lifestyle choice. Your biology however does try sway you that way to try ensure the continuation of the species, this manifests psychologically in feelings of broodiness, (Maybe I did listen in evolutionary psychology) but in this day and age you in almost all cases can chose to get pregnant/stay pregnant, its a choice now.