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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that having children is not a "lifestyle choice"

437 replies

YorkshireTeaGold · 21/01/2015 12:19

Sooo, saw a thread on aibu where the op complained about childcare costs and was told by another poster that she shouldn't complain as having kids was a lifestyle choice.

I've heard this so many times recently, both on mn and in rl and it massively pisses me off! My father actually told me not to complain about morning sickness as I wanted children.

I have 2 dcs and think that this is just maintaining the equilibrium of the world. Reproduction is a biological need, like eating or survival, it's not like taking up golf or buying a yacht. I can see maybe having no kids could be a lifestyle choice for some, as could having 9. But a couple? Not a lifestyle choice.

Plus it hides a political issue in that it's really difficult to afford to bring up children atm. I did a online check (think it was in the guardian) and dh and I are 75th centile for earnings. However 1/3 of this goes on the mortgage, 1/3 on childcare and 1/3 to barely cover the bills. It's ridiculous that this is the case, and if only people who truely afforded it had kids then it'd just be an elite minority reproducing. The government should organise the country so an average family can afford to buy a house and work.

OP posts:
FoxgloveFairy · 21/01/2015 21:49

Haven't read the whole 12 pages, so apologies if the point I'm about to raise has been raised a gazillion times! Here in Australia, we are now facing a situation where we are going to soon have a large population of elderly people needing care with nowhere near enough people of working age to pay for it and actually do it. So having kids is good! Still a choice though.

Iveabsolutelynofekkingideadoi · 21/01/2015 21:50

Alec

Well said

dogscatsandbabies · 21/01/2015 21:52

Not a lifestyle choice. That makes it sound as humdrum as choosing curtains.

The vast majority of our species is born with the biological drive to reproduce, to a greater or lesser extent. The choice is whether you follow that drive. There are some individuals who clearly have a greater internal need for children, I would wonder whether they produce more of certain hormones?

Others, maybe, could take or leave the children, and do make a choice one way or the other. But I really doubt that for many people that choice comes down to "could I still go to Bermuda on holiday?"

I think it's based on perceived happiness with vs. without kids. There are drivers for that perception; whether you view that as free choice depends on how strongly you believe our brains are changed by the influences of our environments as we grow. you spend your whole life hearing your parents tell you you're the best thing that they've ever done and seeing cute pictures of happy babies in the media, other examples ad infinitum. Trust me, you're influenced into thinking kids are awesome

If you wish to persist with the lifestyle choice argument, just scale it up. What if we all chose not to have children? The future would look pretty grim.

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 21:53

so alec if that's your argument, why do some chose to end life abortion,murder,suicide, if our only purpose is life why do some chose to end a life?

Iveabsolutelynofekkingideadoi · 21/01/2015 22:00

Ginger

Unfavourable life/societal conditions I'd imagine.

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 22:09

so it's a choice to end life but not a choice to make it?? Hmm

yeah I'm done withthis now, it's got silly.

GretnaGreen · 21/01/2015 22:14

It's a lifestyle choice in the UK. Women who make that choice suffer disproportionately compared to men who make it. But it's a choice.

educationrocks1 · 21/01/2015 22:15

AlpacinoYou've misunderstood. What is means is 'no running water is the default'. To have running water you have to go great lengths to bring water into your home, usually through boreholes or other means and have the financial means to do this. Many people do, but the masses don't.

TheMotherWhoKnewTooLittle · 21/01/2015 22:16

Depends how your feeling, I mean I choose to have my 1 D but I'm sure others just happen as accidents... Ooppps. For example third world countries are swarming with babies flying out ! Also I have to say the cost of nappies are on the rise ... Just kidding ;)

Iveabsolutelynofekkingideadoi · 21/01/2015 22:18

Death is not a lifestyle choice. You asked why some choose not to have a life(style) or murder or abort. I've also said everything is a choice but questioned the factors behind those choices.

Anyway, g'night then.

Naicecuppatea · 21/01/2015 22:21

It is absolutely a lifestyle choice. With contraception widely available (not speaking about developed countries) you consciously choose when to have a baby and how many children to have. It doesn't just happen!

educationrocks1 · 21/01/2015 22:27

Naicecuppa* and with education it's slowly but surely becoming a lifestyle choice in the 3rd world as well! Women know about these things it's just lack of access to easy contraception.

theeternalstudent · 21/01/2015 22:33

basic Maslow innit!
Level 1 - food, clothing, shelter
Level 2 - safety
Level 3 - family

suppose for everyone family means different things. for me it was having children

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 22:37

aborting a baby is a choice, I know I've done it before, having a baby is a choice, I know I just did it.

alec said the main point of life was life and that was it, but this didn't encompass some people's choice to end life, if that was our sole goal, abortions wouldn't happen. You can't in one breath say having a child isn't a choice, but in the next breath say ending a life is a choice.

You seem hell bent on not accepting any argument or reason explaining the simple fact that the majority of people chose to have children and the number of them, therefore it's a lifestyle choice.

The choice is based on a need, correct, but that need is not solely a biological drive it's not just purely nature, nurture now plays a massive role in family life and it would be fair to say it almost certainly its a choice that affects your lifestyle and therefore a lifestyle choice, especially in the UK where contraception and abortion and so forth is a widely available option.

Everyone who disagrees with you seems to be incorrect, which isn't the case, they just disagree, there is a difference. I disagree with you, you can carry on believing what you want, but I believe otherwise.

Alpacacino · 21/01/2015 22:38

education Yes, exactly, the masses don't have that choice! So how can you use this situation as an example of a "lifestyle choice". To even have a life "style" the basics need to be covered.

"Lifestyle" is being vegan, not having a car, going freshwater swimming, being a bodybuilder, having plastic surgery, retiring in the countryside, eating chips with every meal, going to swinger clubs, being celibate. Things that do not impact significantly on other people.

A new human being, firstly, didn't choose to be born. They are innocent and helpless in the face of any decisions their parents have made. They have innate rights and ought not to suffer unduly from those choice.

A society funded on solidarity recognises this and tax payers happily pay for health care, child care and education

ArsenicFaceCream · 21/01/2015 22:38

@ basic Maslow innit! Grin

educationrocks1 · 21/01/2015 22:46

Alpacacino if you decide to live in a house with running water in Ghana, that is definitely a lifestyle choice. What basics are you talking about?

mowglik · 21/01/2015 22:52

i agree with someone a pp said, that choosing or restricting the number of children you have is a lifestyle choice. If you let nature take its course and have however many children you'd have that not making a choice. Lots of people still do this

FabulousFudge · 21/01/2015 22:53

It is completely a lifestyle choice.

stitch10yearson · 21/01/2015 23:03

contraception is not 100% reliable. If the only choice is having an abortion, or having the child, then where is the choice? because that is what people who bang on about contraception being available in the first world are talking about.
I have three kids, all conceived when contraception failed. Each time, it was a different type, and each time it was used properly. The condom did not split, I did not forget to take a pill, and the coil was inserted properly. If I had a choice, I would never ever have had children. To abort or not, is not a choice. so please, stop going on about something being failsafe, when it is only 99% effective at best.

Iveabsolutelynofekkingideadoi · 21/01/2015 23:05

Ginger

If your last post was directed at me I think you've not read my posts on this thread at all.

Your post doesn't address the reasons behind the life ending choices you mentioned, however that wasn't the original debate.

You are of course free to disagree with me as that if course if your choice.

Labelling family, children as a lifestyle choice seems on a par with making a consumer decision and I don't equate the two. Yes inherently we are consumers but that's not an active choice at birth that's a result of being born into a specific society.

stitch10yearson · 21/01/2015 23:05

And the poster who tried to differentiate psychological from biological, please look up the WHO definition of health, because it does not differentiate between the two.
reproduction is a biological imperative, and that includes psychological

TheABC · 21/01/2015 23:16

It's not so much a lifestyle choice as a lifestyle bomb.

Logically, there is no reason to have kids.
Emotionally, however....

GingerCuddleMonster · 21/01/2015 23:50

but I've many people if not the majority do see having children as a lifestyle choice, it's very easy to see why. You live within your means so you have the number of children that suit your means, the initial child is a considerable change to lifestyle. It completely changes the way one lives their life, and often people chose this change, the same way some people chose not too, because they don't want their lifestyle to change because they are happy childless. it is by it's pure definition a lifestyle choice.

Coyoacan · 22/01/2015 00:07

and with education it's slowly but surely becoming a lifestyle choice in the 3rd world as well! Women know about these things it's just lack of access to easy contraception

Well actually here in the third world we get a lot of entertainment from our children and there is no pension or any other way of surviving in old age without descendants.