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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that having children is not a "lifestyle choice"

437 replies

YorkshireTeaGold · 21/01/2015 12:19

Sooo, saw a thread on aibu where the op complained about childcare costs and was told by another poster that she shouldn't complain as having kids was a lifestyle choice.

I've heard this so many times recently, both on mn and in rl and it massively pisses me off! My father actually told me not to complain about morning sickness as I wanted children.

I have 2 dcs and think that this is just maintaining the equilibrium of the world. Reproduction is a biological need, like eating or survival, it's not like taking up golf or buying a yacht. I can see maybe having no kids could be a lifestyle choice for some, as could having 9. But a couple? Not a lifestyle choice.

Plus it hides a political issue in that it's really difficult to afford to bring up children atm. I did a online check (think it was in the guardian) and dh and I are 75th centile for earnings. However 1/3 of this goes on the mortgage, 1/3 on childcare and 1/3 to barely cover the bills. It's ridiculous that this is the case, and if only people who truely afforded it had kids then it'd just be an elite minority reproducing. The government should organise the country so an average family can afford to buy a house and work.

OP posts:
BathtimeFunkster · 21/01/2015 12:35

Basically only complete wankers ever describe anything as a "lifestyle" choice.

It's just a way of trying to belittle things people do.'

What even is a life "style"?

"Oh this is the style of my life." WTF?!

Having children is not a style choice, wearing furry boots is a style choice.

Whether you have children, or have a same sex partner, or giving up paid work to keep the wheels of society turning - they are all choices of substance, not style.

So basically the moral of the story is, just ignore people who talk about lifestyle choices because they never say anything worth listening to. :)

sparechange · 21/01/2015 12:36

'Biological need'?
I haven't heard that used since someone in the pub tried to justify marital rape

Of course it is a lifestyle choice. The population of the world is growing at an alarming rate, please don't kid yourself that you are doing mankind a favour by having children.

Original poster
YorkshireTeaGold · 21/01/2015 12:36

Replying in haste as need to hose cream cheese off the antilop!

I realise we're not an endangered population but I want my genes to be successful. Maybe it's cos I'm an only child of an only child etc but I've always felt this on a biological level. I''ve got 2 preschoolers, fucking hate my lifestyle!!!! But wanted them and love them. As 80% of people do reproduce I imagine they do too.

OP posts:
ChunkyPickle · 21/01/2015 12:36

OK, so perhaps it is a lifestyle choice, perhaps in the grand scheme of things there are plenty of people and children in the world.

But.

Society does need someone to have kids. If there are no kids there is no-one there to pay taxes to support us once we're old, there's no-one to move into the house you've got either, so there'll be no high prices to sell that to support yourself.

Of course that's silly- we're not going to stop having children (well, except that is happening in some places), but throwing parents to the wolves because they chose to have children which you will conveniently forget you criticized just as soon as you want to retire with government pension, free prescriptions, bus pass, reduced council tax, expensive medical needs etc. is rather disingenuous, and has more than a touch of I'm alright Jack about it.

Childcare costs are too high. Parental leave and part-time working is too disapproved of to allow both parents to take the time out to raise their kids when small these are society's problems - kids and parents are part of society, not just parent's fault because they chose to have kids.

maggiethemagpie · 21/01/2015 12:36

It's a choice but it's a choice driven by a biological urge, therefore to what extent is it really a free choice?

Why the fuck else would people have these parasitic, whinging, sponging, moaning brats who take all your resources and don't give back for about 18 years?

My dad calls it 'mother nature's little trick'

stubbornstains · 21/01/2015 12:38

In my opinion, anybody who wants to can trot out the "Why should we pay for other peoples' lifestyle choices?" argument is perfectly entitled to do so...providing they sign a form waiving their right to an old age pension in the future. Because who on earth do they think is going to be paying for it, other than these very same little "lifestyle choices"?

Theoretician · 21/01/2015 12:38

I was one of those who used the phrase in the other thread. Actually I don't think it is quite the right phrase, I agree it's not quite right to lump it in with things like taking up golf.

However it is (or should be) a choice, for which people should take responsibility. In particular they shouldn't expect it to be subsidised, as a right.

HolyTerror · 21/01/2015 12:39

Oh, hadn't realised the 'lifestyle choice' remark was originally made in a hostile way to a pregnant woman who was feeling ill (if that's what I'm understanding from pps). In which case, while logically true, it's an unhelpful, unsympathetic retort.

But having children is still a choice. I chose not to have a child for a long time. Then I chose to have one aged 39. And I've chosen not to have another. All choices, thanks to women having more control now over their reproductive choices.

Apatite1 · 21/01/2015 12:39

It is an individual choice. No one is saying the whole country is making the collective decision to stop having babies! No need to conflate the two issues, as some posters are doing.

beachysandy75 · 21/01/2015 12:39

YANBU - it is not a lifestyle choice. It is a natural part of life.

isaidlesbonotasbo · 21/01/2015 12:39

As others have said, yes it is a choice. wrt keeping the planet/population going, pressure of population is surely more likely to destroy us all in the long run .After all, how many more are your two going to be adding to the total three or four generations down the line. You are not just replacing yourselves surely.

rootypig · 21/01/2015 12:41

What on earth do people think would happen if we all chose not to have children Confused

Apart, of course, from importing a them by the boatload from India? Hmm

This is NOT how biology works. Or economics. Or law.

Jackie0 · 21/01/2015 12:41

Yabu
It isn't a biological need. It can be an emotional need.
Having two children isn't keeping the equilibrium going at all, far from it.
www.ecology.com/birth-death-rates/
I agree with lauriefairycake, it is a choice made for one's self.

HolyTerror · 21/01/2015 12:43

Beachy, that implies that the large and increasing numbers of voluntarily childless people are 'unnatural'. Which is dismissive and pretty strange. I certainly didn't have a child because I thought it was the 'natural' thing to do.

Catzeyess · 21/01/2015 12:44

I had this argument with a work colleague. I cannot believe people actually think this.

Having children is part of the circle of life, frankly not having children is a lifestyle choice imho.

I agree with op society should be set up so everyone can have enough food, a home and family if they so wish. If people don't want to have children then that absolutely fine.

If all people stop having children the human race will die out. Simple. The declining birth rate in China is a very serious problem for example.

And breathe

OnlyLovers · 21/01/2015 12:44

YABU.

Theoretician · 21/01/2015 12:46

In my opinion, anybody who wants to can trot out the "Why should we pay for other peoples' lifestyle choices?" argument is perfectly entitled to do so...providing they sign a form waiving their right to an old age pension in the future. Because who on earth do they think is going to be paying for it, other than these very same little "lifestyle choices"?

There is no shortage of people in the world, not even of educated productive ones who want to come and live in the UK. It's actually a major political issue in the coming election that there are to many such people. So anyone suggesting they are doing UK PLC a favour by having kids is speaking ... nonsense.

MrsKCastle · 21/01/2015 12:46

For me, yes it was absolutely a lifestyle choice. I could have chosen to remain childless, with a LOT more disposable income, more free time and a very different lifestyle. Instead, I chose to have a family.

I don't think that means I can never complain about having kids- it is expensive, it's bloody hard work and everybody needs a moan occasionally. But I do recognize that it's the life I chose.

minipie · 21/01/2015 12:47

YABU

It's a choice. (Lifestyle choice is wanky though).

Yes, the world needs children, but nobody has children for the good of mankind. People have children because they want to (or by accident).

Yes, there is a biological urge to have children, for most people, but then there's a biological urge to do all sorts of other things and we manage to control those urges when we don't fancy the outcome. We are not at the mercy of that urge.

On the other hand, just because it was a choice doesn't mean we can't whinge about the consequences.

isaidlesbonotasbo · 21/01/2015 12:48

rootypig, surely by saying ¨if we all chose not to have children¨ you are saying we equally chose to have children. I agree biology seems to make most of us want children, but I wonder if the truth is that biology makes us want to have sex, and society, culture, etc makes us want to have children. Is biology driving a 60 year old woman, for example, go to the ends of the medical earth in order to have her own child?

Apatite1 · 21/01/2015 12:48

Anyone who justifies their decision to have kids as some sort of favour to mankind, sacrifice for the world and ultimately altruistic move is a MORON who doesn't have a clue about population statistics.

You had kids beause of entirely selfish reasons: nothing wrong with that, but do remove your head from your self righteous arse if you think otherwise. You wanted kids, you made the choice to have them, feel free to moan about the costs, end of the day: it's your responsibility, end of.

HeeHiles · 21/01/2015 12:48

In my 20's I didn't really want to have children - would have been happy to party and have holidays for the rest of my days.

Until, in my 30's I met a man and we fell in love - A yearning, a need to have children completely overwhelmed me - I didn't feel I had a choice anymore, my instincts were screaming out to me to procreate, however much I told myself 'don't do it!' I couldn't, I absolutely had to - I loved this man and the natural thing to do, what millions of years of evolution has taught us to do.

YANBU - it's not a free choice, there are instincts and it is after all what we are supposed to do.

ender · 21/01/2015 12:49

Of course it's a choice, and a selfish choice as well, because we want a babeee!
No problem if everyone in the UK stopped having children. Then there'd be room for all those who are desperate to come here to work. Their taxes will fund our pensions.

MuttersDarkly · 21/01/2015 12:49

I live in an EU country that does not enjoy the range of child related benefits available in Britian. There is a negative birth rate. It is not startlingly unusual for a couple to not have any children. Only child are very common (my son and half his friends are onlies). Big families (3+) are far less common than they are elsewhere.

People choose to have/not have children, or to keep their family very small according to what they can afford in terms of lifestyle. Lifestyle commonly including things like being able to pay the rent/mortgage AND schoolbooks/school insurance/shitload of stuff for school like loo roll/childcare fees etc.

My sister and BIL are in Britian and are childless by choice. As a lifestyle choice. Because they aren't attracted to the realities of a life that includes children. So cold hard cash is not the only consideration.

So yeah, I do think having children is a lifestyle choice. Wanting them is normal. But so is not being able to afford the number that you'd want if money/time were no issue. As to is not wanting any because you don't like the look of a life that includes kids. So we all pick. None, one, a pair, or more. Depending on what we feel are our priorities in terms of what we want out of life. We have control over our fertility, having kids is a choice, how many we have reflects the style of life we will be able to live.

riverboat1 · 21/01/2015 12:50

I don't know anyone who decided to have children to do their bit for the future economy.

They had them because they wanted their life to have children in it.

So to that extent I think it is a lifestyle choice.