to want DP to get DCs 2 & 3 ready in the morning

[whatisfair]

(namechanger)

I work full time. I have a tough, but fulfilling professional job. DP is a SAHP for the moment, but will probably go back to work part time when DC3 starts school. Our DCs are 10,4 & 2. DC1 and I leave the house together at 0720 (I take her to school on way to work). DP leaves house with DCs2&3 at 0825, drops DC2 at school and then takes DC3 to nursery 3 days a week, where he stays until 1500. We have a cleaner twice a week. DP intended to use the free time to do some professional activity but says there is no time (with household chores, kids sometimes ill etc.) and is quite bitter.

I get home at 1920 (sometimes later) - DP has usually cooked. We then share baths/bedtime 50%. Weekends we share childcare/household tasks 50%. Our two youngest do not sleep well. We share nightwakings 50% ish, though maybe I do a bit more (WOH guilt). We are both sleep deprived.

We do very little prep the night before schooldays: in the past, I used to prepare clothes, schoolbags etc. but I have now said that while I will do 50% of this - I will not do it all. DP practically never does any prep.

So, my AIBU is this: I think that in the mornings, I should basically do very little with kids (nag DC1 a bit, maybe make snack) and DP should fully get DCs2&3 ready, and that this should easily be possible for DP, who could start at 0700. I currently get up at 0635. DP thinks I should get up earlier and help more with DCs2&3.

Dear mumsnet jury, who, please is BU?

I am in a similar position to your dp. I do get all the dc ready and off to school. I do get a little resentful though if dh moans about the state of the house. I work from home most of the hours that the dc are in school. I also cook, clean & do shopping but if I have a busy week work wise or dc off sick then it does go all pear shaped. I still have to do my work and although it is much more flexible than his if I have to work in the evening because I got little done during the day then I wouldn't appreciate him refusing to load the dishwasher. Maybe you could suggest that you go back to getting things ready the night before. You get things ready for dc2 s/he gets things ready for dc3 and dc1 gets their own things ready. Will take each of you 5 min. Then s/he is all set in the morning to get the dc up, fed, dressed and out without chasing around at 8.20 trying to find dc2's shoes. looking at you dd2 who is old enough now to have learnt to put your shoes away. Ds can do it and he's 3 yrs younger

I don't think it's helpful to think in terms of who is BU and who isn't. You have 5 people leaving the house in the morning. Two leaving at 7.20am and three leaving at 8.25am. It's difficult to say if your DP is being UR or not because you've forgotten to mention what time they get up. However, I'd be pretty pissed off if I was running round like a headless chicken trying to get three DCs ready in the morning whilst my DP sat nagging the DCs a bit and maybe making a snack which seems to be the role you want to take. I don't see how that's fair at all. You should both be ensuring your DCs get dressed and out in time.

This is a much bigger problem than who does what in the mornings. You both need to sit down and talk about how you both organise your time and whether your DP feels he/she can't work because they are shouldering more and more of the household demands.

It seems as though you have decided to cut back your contribution because you feel resentful ( in the past, I used to prepare clothes, schoolbags etc. but I have now said that while I will do 50% of this ) Having been both a SAHP and a WAHP, I would have been more than annoyed if my DP just suddenly decided to reduce their involvement in family life without any discussion.

Now, yes, your DP could be lazy. But they might not. There isn't enough info in your op for me to judge. But thinking that you are both on different sides and competing to be the hardest-done-to isn't going to solve anything.

Your DP is being unreasonable.

My DP works FT - leaves the house at 07:30 & back home at 19:30 earliest. All he does before he leaves is make packed lunches for our 3 DCs (9,6 & 3). The only thing he does when he gets home is eat his dinner (that I have made and left for him) & say goodnight to the kids, maybe read them a story & put them to bed.

I do everything else for the kids & house during the week. I get them ready, sort their breakfast, leave at 08:30, drop 2 kids at school, 1 at nursery and then I go to work. I pick them all up at 3. Before or after work I manage to make dinner, help with homework, take them to clubs, sort out washing, clean & tidy, pick up shopping & do general chores.

At the weekends we split all childcare, cooking, cleaning & shopping 50:50.

Your DP should be structuring his time better. Maybe if he/she got up at the same time as you in the morning, there would be more time when your DC is at nursery for professional work.

it all sounds very fraught and unhappy. A bit if kindness goes a long way. As PP said, OP does deserve to be treated kindly but going on strike, telling DP to pull his/her socks up or arguing about who is harder done by is not going to achieve that. Neither of you are happy. How can you both fix this? Sorry to go all lentil-weaver but in a partnership you should feel that your DP supports you and respects your contribution, and it sounds like neither of you feel you are getting that.

FWIW I found the school run very hard work with a difficult 2-3 year old in tow, so give DP a break. But there is a limit to how many of the tasks could be achieved by 7.20, so DP needs to give you a break. It will get easier. And don't underestimate the effect of sleep deprivation in all this.

Thanks for all the comments.

First, it's true that I, OP, am the woman. I had tried to make my OP genderneutral because I know responses are often affected by the sex of the OP, but I'm also not surprised that it was clear to most of you ...

My DP isn't lazy, but (in my view) hopelessly inefficient - loads of time spent hunting for shoes etc. I used to make sure that things were laid out the night before (also when I was on maternity leave) and have to say that when I am on my own, which I sometimes am, getting the kids ready is not a problem. I've explained all this to him, but I really can't do it all myself the night before. It's too much for me, and I resent it, because it's something that (like someone upthread said) would really not be very much work if tnings were organised as they went along (shoes/coats put in the right place when kids get home etc.).

I get up 5-10 minutes earlier than my DP, but am often awake in bed with DC3 from 0615 or so.

I can't not work the hours I work, but I do see my kids. One day most weeks (Fridays) I am home at 1500 and pick the kids up from school. We do start bedtimes late (but we live abroad and it is more like that here), sometimes kids have dinner with OP (and me) at 1900, sometimes they eat before I am home, sometimes we eat together.

I'm happy to give kids breakfast if they are up before I leave, but I really resent being made to feel I should rush around dressing them, comb their hair etc. while DP finds shoes, makes snacks for school etc. (especially as I think a lot of this could/should be done the day before, and I am prepared to do half of it, which I agree takes only around 15mins max).

I thnk some of you are right about the organisation, I know that if we did it the night before things would be easier, but I just can't get beyond my resentment anymore. The general chaos in the mornings is bad for me, us, the kids.

We could afford more childcare/help, but we both decided that we wanted one of us to be around for the kids after school, and DP wanted to do that (I am the major earner), so I gave up a slightly part time regime (two afternoons at home) which I loved, and DP stopped work. It was very good for my career, so now I am glad I did it. DP, on the other hand, feels unappreciated by me. Which is partly true. He's very, very good with the kids, but the lack of organisation drives me insane, also because the kids need some structure, I think.

I honestly don't know what to do. I'm exhausted.

Flomple - I agree about the need for kindness between us both, I don't know how to get back there though. I am horrid to him at the moment, but I feel like he tries to eek any semblance of 'breathing space' out of my life, that I am generally exhausted (work is very demanding) and that he can't be, but he claims he is.

TBH, if you leave at 7.20, I would have thought that that was plenty of time for him to then get up with the kids & get them ready.

If they are already up, I don't see that you need to be getting them ready tbh.

How many pairs of shoes do they have & how big is the place you live in??!!

Shoes & coats off in the hall is a great system tbh!

Yes, I can see that having him moan at you for not doing enough when he has 18 hours a week of free-ish time must do your head in! Especially when you as a family are paying out for 3 whole dys of nursery and a cleaner.

I don't know the answer either, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't lie in exactly who does what in the mornings. We don't do the prep the night before either, but it works ok. Setting up systems does help - DC can learn to leave shoes in the shoe basket etc - but you know that, and any system does depend on DP implementing it.

I always trot this out but someone here once posted the quote about marriage (or relationship!) being "a competition of kindness".

It's Very very very easy to get sucked into the "who does more and who has it worse" competition with little children. Very easy.

DH was a SAHP for years and I worked similar hours to you. He did everything bar bath and bed. Everything. All laundry, cooking, cleaning, school stuff for different DC, childcare. He has always had high energy so it worked but if it was me I would have been resentful so it's no use listening to what other people do or think, you have to work out what's best for you and what works. Having said that, if you have outside childcare and cleaning, I would think he has it made though! He is BU in my book, but only you know if he is just lazy or is there something else going on?

I would sit down when you are child free one night and discuss what you need to do going forward. It seems like he has much more free time than you, does he realise? I think I would be saying, this isn't working for me, I'm exhausted can we swap roles back and if sees his role disappearing it may give him the impetus to step up a bit.

DH always said the reason he was at home was to deal with everything, that was his "job". It should be seen as just as important as paid work, but equally you have to take it seriously.

Sounds like the two of you need some quality time together so you can relax and chill and talk about what you both need for this to work away from the stress of daily life. I know, easier said than done!

Could you get a babysitter on Friday and go out for dinner and a couple of drinks together? It's good for you to remember you're a couple too, not just parents. And in this situation it's easier to discuss how you both feel without being accusatory in it.

If you can't do this then what dh and I used to do when the boys were little is to have a carpet picnic when they were in bed, with nice ready made food and a bottle of wine.

The thing is though, if OP does get all 3 ready in the morning, is her OH going to use that time so that he gets time to do his job when he is at home sans children?

What does he want to change so that he can use all his time without children productively?

I think the question I'd ask the OP, is what would you do if your DH said "I don't want you to get up at 6:35 and only get home at 19:30, work less, and we'll have loads more time to organise the kids." If you wouldn't be happy with that, then you purely are expecting him to completely support the whole lifestyle you want to lead, irrespective of what he wants, then YABU, regardless of how little he does, or how lazy he is. It's not his job to facilitate the life you want.

It's not your job to facilitate his either of course, but it's compromise that matters, and I don't actually see any, just what you need from him.

I wonder if it would be worth going to couples' counselling? It might help you both to hear each other and find some common ground.

It sounds difficult for both of you. You both feel unappreciated. However in the middle of all this, there are three DCs who may be feeling they're a burden as you both argue about who does what for them. If you can't do it for you or for your DP, can you implement some changes for their sake eg introducing a date night; seeing a counsellor; reconsidering whether it is time for your DP to resurrect their career, etc.

Can you not share the prep in the evenings? You don't have to address it as who does more, just tell him it's too chaotic in the mornings and you want to go back to prepping the night before. (If he resists, ask him to try it for two weeks and see if it makes a difference for everyone.) Then in the evening have him sort the clothes (as the disorganisation will probably irritate you) and you do the lunches.

I agree with Place, this is fundamentally a practical problem so try to put your resentment to one side for now. The way to address that is to make some bigger changes. It sounds like you are both very tired and unhappy so something has to change.

"I don't want you to get up at 6:35 and only get home at 19:30, work less, and we'll have loads more time to organise the kids."

Time isn't the issue though, is it?

If partner gets up just after OP, he has time to get washed/dressed/have breakfast & sort out shoes before OP even leaves the house!

He then has an hr to sort out two kids!

Some of the problem is surely the compromises that we have made with work. DP's career has suffered and mine has taken off. We knew that would happen and I do appreciate that massively (for various reasons that would out me, we made an irrevocable choice a long time ago that I would be the major earner). DP has just finished a year off and could now start to do some unpaid work in his field. I would totally support that (and do encourage him). If he doesn't want to, that's fine too, and I am really -genuinely - happy for him to do what he wants with the extra time he has, but he says he doesn't have any.

When I have the kids, I manage the day-to-day stuff (tidying round, organising meals) in around an hour after dropping the kids at school: the rest happens while they are there (we tidy up together, sort out laundry together etc.) - I don't see why he can;t do this: I've tried so many things to help him find some structure/establish some viable organisation.

I would like him to offer me a couple of childfree hours in the weekend to do stuff I need to do (haircuts/ admin/ my hobby - I wish), but he never does unless I insist. I try hard though, to take the kids somewhere on my own for a couple of hours if possible. The major problem is really the mornings though. I need to look presentable, I want to be able to sit (fior five minutes) at the table with my kids and talk to them/drink coffee. My work day is really intense - the pressure in the mornings on top of that, just makes me feek like I can never slow down.

I'm really confused.

DP takes a kid to nursery and stays there too? Til 3pm?

What on earth do you mean? Don't buy a dog AND bark yourself do you...?

He sits in reception...? Stays in town meandering round shops...?

That's why he's got no fucking time. He's dicking about.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to get DC2 and 3 ready because he has an hour in which to do this after you have left for work.

I also, however, don't think it's unreasonable for your DP to be struggling to make a professional activity work when he has 15 hours a week without the DC in the house (others have said that it is unreasonable, but I can see why he may be "bitter" and struggling to make it work). It must be around this amount of time if he is dropping DC3 at nursery after dropping DC2 at school, then going out to collect DC3 at 3pm.

Does he do all the washing, ironing, activity planning, food shopping, tidying, dishwashing, preparing supper, communication with teachers, arranging playdates, paying bills, seeing plumbers/electricians, sorting out clothes and toys for the charity shop, making costumes, buying presents for children's parties, arranging parties, sorting out Christmas, etc during that time?

Then 3-7 pm is completely manic for me as I'm taking the DC to activities, collecting from schools 30 mins apart, supervising two lots of homework and music practice, trying to listen to 2x20 mins of reading, as well as trying to keep a tired DC3 happy and trying to have constructive conversations with DC1 and 2 about their day.

It probably doesn't help him to know that you used to do all this more efficiently than him. Some people are just better at the housework than others - unfortunately it also sounds as if you are more successful in your career as well. And even the most efficient sahp can get sluggish and demotivated in the face of the monotony of the everyday grind.

Why don't you ask him if he is unhappy being the sahp, and see if he would be happier returning to work with you employing a nanny?

Perhaps he needs to look at paid employment so that you could have a nanny?

You're ringing bells, are you in Spain and have you posted bits about your partner and the kids and relationship before?

If so, basically whatever your issue is, I'd be inclining to YANBU.

That was an x post and I see you do some of the laundry together. I genuinely don't see how you can get all the household stuff done in an hour. Perhaps I am just crap at household organisation, or lazy, like your DH, but I think you may be underestimating how much there is for a SAHP to do.

I know people will flame me and tell me they do it all in 60 seconds flat. This morning I've cleaned two pairs of rugby boots, sorted out 2 games kits, cleaned the (big and quite previously quite messy) kitchen, done the washing up, cleared out the cupboards and fridge, put away the food shopping, communicated with a couple of parents and the DCs' teachers about some organisational stuff, made a cup of coffee and read this thread. That's taken me the 3 hours since I got back from dropping DC3 at nursery.

This is interestingly almost exactly like my DB and SIL's situation, except that SIL is the SAHP. DB does the lion's share of getting the DC ready in the morning, then works a 12 hour day (including commute) then takes equal share with bedtimes.

SIL has 3 school age children and a cleaner.

Like many posters on here, I would argue that the balance of tasks is very unequal, however SIL argues that she is constantly on call, gets the routine shitty tasks all the time, has to do significantly more in holidays, and has to do all the organising round the edges all the time. She also points out that helping in mornings/evenings means DB gets to spend more time with the DC, and that although it seems like she has lots of free time in the day, it can't always be used in the way she wants.

Anyway, regardless DB and SIL are happy with their arrangement, which I guess is the crux here as OP isn't.

OK, I can see there are some deeper issues here, but why on earth are you getting drawn into getting the younger two ready to leave the house, when they don't need to leave until an hour later? Why don't you concentrate on the easier 10yo, and leave your dh to sort the others after you've left?

And I also don't see why you have to organise all the stuff the night before in order to make his life easier the next morning. Yes, yes, it's a team effort and all that, but he's an adult and says he doesn't have enough time to do all he wants to during the day. So he needs to get his act together then, and you doing it all for him is not helping.

I think it's time to sit down and have a proper reevaluation of what you both are doing. Nothing is irrevocable, is there any reason he can't go back to work and you get a nanny? It sounds like it would make things easier all around.

Not everyone is good at being a SAHP. It sounds like he's disorganised and inefficient, not lazy per se, is that right? It's no good just judging him, thinking you can do better, trying to get him to do things differently. This is how he does it and it's just, well, not good enough. If you had an employee who wasn't up to scratch, would you keep hassling them about it and thinking how much better you could do? No, you would try to find something else for them to do (or sack them, obviously...)

My DH and I have taken turns being SAHP. I admit I have had to bite my tongue on certain things when it's his turn, but at the same time I appreciate the sacrifices he is making by not working and taking care of all the grunt work at home. Right now it sounds like neither of you are appreciating the other at all. I think it's time for some bigger changes, both in your daily routine to make life easier for everyone, and in your overall setup.