To think that the under 18s minimum wage is exploitative

[DaddyDavid]

My son who is 16 has been offered a job at a supermarket. The pay is £3.72 an hour. I can't und why the minimum wage is lower for under-18s it seems like age discrimination. This has annoyed me so much, as I fualt it would be good for ds1 to get a Saturday job but know I think it would be better if he worked about the house and I pay him more aibu

Alec - but very few jobs are totally 'task' orientated. If you work in a shop for example, your 'task' might be to serve a customer. But an older, experienced person is much more likely to be able to chat appropriately to the customer, offer additional products to buy, help them choose, etc etc etc - obviously some teenagers might have those skills but as alltoomuch and others have stated, half the time working with teens is explaining they can't use FB, mobile phone, chat to their friends etc etc whilst on the shop floor. We had a teen working in our shop who would leave the second her 'hours' finished - regardless of whether she was in the middle of serving a customer or not. needless to say she didn't last long .

Of course it is exploitative. Under no other circumstances would 2 people be expected to do the same job for massively differing pay.

Of course it is not exploitative, it is an attempt to help employers and prospective 16 year old employees get what they need.

The cheaper age ensures 16 year olds will be given a chance. The guaranteed minimum ensures that they will be paid what every other wet behind the ears beginner is paid - remember they MUST still be in full time education, so we are only talking 12 hours per week maximum. It is intended to dissuade kids from working to support their families, as many of us older bods did. It is intended to provide work experience that does not interfere with education.

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_young_people_e/young_people_and_employment.htm#h_what_work_can_you_do

There are strict limits to the hours children and young people under school leaving age (see under heading General rules on employment) are allowed to work. You must not work:-
•during school hours on any school day
•for more than two hours on any school day or for more than 12 hours in any week in which you are required to go to school
•for more than two hours on a Sunday
•for more than eight hours (five hours if you are under 15) on any day which is not a school day or a Sunday
•before 7am or after 7pm
•for more than 35 hours (25 if you are under the age of 15) in any week in which you are not required to go to school
•for more than four hours in any day without a break of one hour
•at any time, if during the 12 months beginning 1 January, working means that you have not had two uninterrupted weeks of holiday from school.

But as someone said upthread, it would be interesting of those who find this shocking ever worked for NMW, at any age!

hahaah, i'm an apprentice and I get £3.10 an hour.
However i'm 19 now so it will be going up to minimum wage for a 19y/o. it sucks but thats what you have to live with.

its hard and all, when people my age are moving out, and in 1996, the people I work with bought their first houses at my age! I want that!

1996?

100%? Repayment only? Huge multiples of earnings? The stuff of de regulation dreams. The stuff that caused the last crash.

Well, as I am now out of the housing market, you are welcome to that.... we survived the 1991 slump because we were ultra conservative. Many then and later were not. Be very careful what you wish for!

But as someone said upthread, it would be interesting of those who find this shocking ever worked for NMW, at any age!

Not sure what the hell this has to do with anything???? So what?

You're better off paying two people a decent wage than 4 people minimum wage.

The same amount of work will be done.

With that comes loyalty and respect for an employer.

With minimum wage come resentment and a shoddy outcome.

With minimum wage come resentment and a shoddy outcome - really? I know lots of people who have no choice but to work for the minimum wage and yet do a great job, are hard working, motivated and great employees. I earn barely over the minimum wage (not even the living wage) myself but I enjoy what I do, am enthusiastic, motivated and just as committed to my employer as when I earned significantly more with a company car and lots of extra perks thrown in.

My kids started NMW jobs when they were 16. DS2(18) is still on the NMW for his weekend job. If either of them had said they didn't think it was worth getting out of bed for, they would've got the bare minimum out of DH and I.

Our DC like earning their own money. They managed to buy their own cars, we paid for the insurance becuase they couldn't do both. DS1 saved like mad and paid for a post A-level holiday with his mates to Malia too.

If you look at it as just £3.79, it looks like nothing, but if you think of it as the bigger picture, say what he'd earn in a month, it's not actually that bad!

Going to work is much more about the pay. It teaches team work, confidence, budgeting and much more. When DS1 joined the Army, which incidentally pays incredibly poor for lower ranks and is exempt from the NMW, he benefited from having worked P/T since he was 16. It was encouraged that if you couldn't get paid work, prior to signing up, that you did voluntary work.

People twice, triple, or more, the age of a teenager earn minimum wage . I earned it as a shop manager (actual minimum wage) in my last job, because it was a charity and therefore wouldn't pay much. So if teens are resentful then they should try talking to an adult on it who has actual rent/ bills/ mortgage, which the average teen won't have.
I gave my job my all, it was very rewarding. I often worked 7 days a week, as had to cover other stores. That's a big ask for minimum wage. It was exhausting at times. I'd rather that though, than being out of work like I am now. And that's not being 'martyrish' - I had job satisfaction and knowing it was all for a good cause too. I met great people , got fit doing it and the hours flew by. That's why last year I volunteered for a charity shop even though I'd only done it paid before. I'm now trying to get back into paid charity retail work, which pays a little bit more than minimum wage but not much. Why should a teenager be sniffy about minimum wage when for e.g. an experienced 40something does it and still shows commitment.
Well put, Ragwort.

It's awful. I used to get £3.20 ph as a Saturday worker when I was 17 in 1992.

We are clearly in the same line of work alltoomuch - good luck in your search for a job. .

Of course it's a disgusting amount to be paid. No two ways about it.

What on earth are you buying into Ragwort?

Teens were paid the equivalent of £5 an hour 20 years ago!

Absolutely exploitation!

Blimey, do you lot work for the jobcentre or whatever the hell they are called these days by any chance?

The minimum wage is disgusting.

This is what the "government" guidelines try to indocronate....

It's not about what you earn, its about working, being part of a "team", its about doing something beneficial for your self-esteem?

What a crock of shite!

It's about HUGE companies becoming richer and richer.

Wake up!

No, never worked for job centre. I worked in retail; much of (non management) retail is minimum wage.
The charity Scope, at least when I was working for them two years ago, also paid minimum wage to its shops managers in the UK (the rest of staff were volunteers)
At the moment I'm trying to get work through an agency for admin jobs etc.. much of those jobs are minimum wage...that does surprise me however, as nearly 20 years ago agencies paid more when I temped

16 year olds don't use the job centre, so what's that got to do with anything. If OP thought the pay was too low, why bother applying, it just wastes everyone's time. Surely they must have known what the pay was, it's a shop so it's not going to be a lot.

Tinks my kids had 2 choices, take a NMW job or sit at home on their arses and get nothing. They took the job because they wanted the money. If they hadn't someone else would have. There are thousands of teenagers queuing up for these jobs. The pay isn't great but not taking the job won't change that.

And, yes working as a teen is about more than the pay packet. It is about gaining vital experience and skills. It is, also, teaching them that they aren't too good to be doing the menial tasks and starting at the bottom. Too many people these days think they are better than the McDonalds job, or the job in Asda, and I personally don't think that is a positive attitude to have.

There is no way on this earth I would make my almost adult work for that amount of money. It's not teaching them anything other than hating working life. An apprenticeship does however. But unless the employers are made to think like this again then.. go on allow it. Exploit your son or daughter.

Go on then, tell them they have to work for £3 an hour. Can you not wake up and smell the coffee here? Im being very dramatic I know but shall we have sweatshops in England then? It will get that way believe me in the next 20 years unless something is said and done about it. Minimum wage is NOT acceptable. Why on earth do so many people lie down and accept this?

So what high paid jobs do you suggest the 16 year olds do then? Or do they just do nothing.

When was I talking about "high paid" jobs Ring? I was saying that minimum wage is disgusting. I was saying that £3 odd for any labour of any kind is disgusting. Do you not get it?

Why does a 16 year old expect to earn the minimum wage? Sorry, it's designed for people who struggle to bring up a family and pay bills, don't get me wrong it's far too low, but what makes a kid think they are entitled to it, their bloody parents who think their little darlings must have it all, right now! Let them get up early and work for very little, maybe they might learn a work ethic!