To think that the under 18s minimum wage is exploitative

[DaddyDavid]

My son who is 16 has been offered a job at a supermarket. The pay is £3.72 an hour. I can't und why the minimum wage is lower for under-18s it seems like age discrimination. This has annoyed me so much, as I fualt it would be good for ds1 to get a Saturday job but know I think it would be better if he worked about the house and I pay him more aibu

The arguments for this form of legalised are such utter bullshit. They seem to boil down to

A) they're lacking in experience and will need more training

B) they only want the money for clubbing, holidays or a car

C) they should be grateful for any sort of work

You could make the same argument for paying the over 60s significantly less than the minimum wage on the bogus grounds that A) they'll be doddery and slow on the uptake so will need more training. B) they'll have paid off their mortgage so only want the money yo top up their pension and to spend on cruises and copies of the people's friend C) it is hard for older people to get into the jobs market they should be grateful for anything thry can get.

All of which sounds absurd and biggotted and founded on crass generalisations. But with young people it is okay to treat them as second class citizens.

That really wasn't what I was saying I don't think teenagers should be treated as second class citizens at all

But I am more concerned about a 16yr old taking a job that isn't on zero hours contract being expected to work or lose their job

I wasn't getting at you mrs jayy, but I can't see how expecting a 16-17 to perform exactly the same job as a 21 yesr old or a 30 year old for the same amount of time to the same standard for almost half their pay is anything but treating them as second class citizens.

I worked for TK Maxx between 16 and 18 and thankfully, the only place that would take me on also paid the same wages to under 18/over 18! I don't think I would have turned it down if it was less though, considering that after handing out 50 CVs (this was 2008) only one shop was willing to interview me. The equal wage did make it feel more equal within the team though, we had the under 18s, pensioners and everyone in between.

I didn't make much even with the equal wage (8hrs/week during term) so I get that it's a bit galling if you make even less, but there's similar job problems with most of my early 20s friends. Self-employment loopholes and the like are everywhere and most of my friends including DP are registered self employed, do their own taxes and make significantly less money whilst still being tied to one company on the face of things. They're as desperate for work as ever, perhaps more so than when we were younger and it wasn't as vital to have any money. I realise that's kind of like saying "everyone has it bad right now, so deal with it" but I do agree aspects of employment law (which I have also been exploited by when working in an academy) need major retooling and there's no political will to do that.

Regardless, I was very proud of my first job and although I loved whining about it to my mum I did say at the time that I would move boxes all day if that's what getting a job meant; I stuck with that place a long time. I had a good reputation, people liked me and although I was stuck behind a till a lot of the summer and near Christmas, there was a camaraderie that kept me and my friends going. I did spend most of my money on cigs and coffee, mind

What supermarket is that? As a 16 year old I was on £5.40 an hour with Tesco with time and a half on Sunday!

Btw, if you say they you have a NMW and then say that actually 'Yes we do but in X and Y circumstances, then it doesn't apply' that means there is NO National Minimum Wage.

Huh? Yes there is, it is the protected minimum a person can earn, as set out in the link I supplied earlier. There are different NMWs, it is a sliding scale.... I am not sure how, in your scenario Friar a young person could ever get a job... how would they get taken on and trained up? No business can afford to pay top dollar for inexperienced workers. All jobs require a traineeship, the 6 month trial period...

Having said that, any employer can pay more if they choose to. Quite a few do. But the protected minimum remains.

It isn't about being 2nd class, it is about being inexperienced and needing other workers to mentor and monitor, taking them away from their jobs. And being paid commensurate with the payscale within a company.

That some companies use it as a blanket approach is down to them, it may be exploitative at that point. But that doesn't mean that the idea is a bad one.

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to comment

My 16yr old lad is working in a supermarket, he gets 6 something an hour, is employed for 8 hours per week, but is doing masses of overtime so has a tidy wage packet each month.

My 18yr old Daughter is doing an apprenceship and is being paid 2.70 an hour, now that is shit money

16 years old, masses of overtime - could be illegal and opening up his employer to prosecution, himself to failing his exams (see my earlier link).

Apprenticeships, sorry but at 18 she should be on £5.03. Why did she not question this when she signed up? Her employer is paying her illegally! Get that sorted, go to the college and get their Apprenticeship Administrator to sort that out, immediately!

Nomama that is incorrect

Category of worker Hourly rate from 1 Oct 2014
Aged 21 and above £6.50
Aged 18 to 20 inclusive £5.13
Aged under 18 (but above compulsory school leaving age) £3.79
Apprentices aged under 19 £2.73
Apprentices aged 19 and over, but in the first year of their apprenticeship £2.73

He has left school and is at college, he doesnt exceed the hours permitted, but works as much as he can.

To be honest, working in a supermarket doesn't require much skill/training/responsibility, yet the work is hard enough. I don't see why someone should be paid less than a minimum wage based on age.

bruffin I have re-read my source info and checked yours! You are right, but I am not sure how that worked out. I think it is because we recommend employers pay according to the Average wage, data from the latest UK.gov survey.

In 2014 a L2/3 apprentice received over £6 per hour, on average (UK.gov Apprentice Pay survey 2014). Our L2 Agric Apprentices, all under 18, receive less than this, but the L3s (all over 18) other receive closer to that, as I said about £5 per hour... which must have been the average from a previous survey, or we wouldn't have it recommended in our bumf.