To think that the under 18s minimum wage is exploitative

[DaddyDavid]

My son who is 16 has been offered a job at a supermarket. The pay is £3.72 an hour. I can't und why the minimum wage is lower for under-18s it seems like age discrimination. This has annoyed me so much, as I fualt it would be good for ds1 to get a Saturday job but know I think it would be better if he worked about the house and I pay him more aibu

There is a very warped view on here of what constitutes slave labour. We are talking about a 16 year old whose parents will pay him more to wash their car.

Slavery is not comparable to this situation, in any way.

I'm much more concerned about adults being forced onto zero hour contracts than I am about 16 year olds being offered low paid Saturday jobs that they can turn down anyway if they or their parents deem them unsuitable.

It's easier to get a job when you've got a job so why not accept this one but keep looking for a better paid one?

My 16 year old has definitely learned the value of money since getting his Saturday job. If he's talking about buying something he always considers if it's going to be bought with his money or my money. Chances are if I say his money he decides he doesn't really need it!

Wow! £3.72! I was on that at age 18 in 1996 and that was before the minimum wage came in! That is absolutely shocking!

I would also like to see a living wage.
But across the board and maybe somewere in their levels for experience?
But that would probably be to complicated.
So living wage is better then minimum.

I don't know, ilovesooty. A lot depends on the area that you live in - how buoyant the local economy is, how many are going for jobs in your field etc. I honestly don't think stacking shelves in Asda or being on the till is going to help job prospects much if you're doing a degree and will eventually be going into an area of work that's unrelated to retail. Also, at what point do you stop putting Saturday jobs on your CV? I don't think I ever did and O levels never got on there as I did a higher education course. If you've done a degree and someone else has done the same degree and you're neck and neck on everything else I honestly don't think the fact they had a Saturday job 4-5 years earlier is going to give them the edge, unless it was relevant work, and most work for 16 year olds won't come under this category - unless maybe it's Tesco and the job is for Tesco management (Tesco is cutting back though on jobs so unlikely, as are the other supermarkets).

If you live in an area of high unemployment, aren't doing further education, then maybe yes you need to take that MW Saturday job. But the OP asked if it's exploitative for 16 and 17 year olds to get less. And I think it is - on the one hand they're doing the same work, on the other though that 18 year old might have left home and be running a household. Either way the money is crap.

Again I can only speak as someone that thankfully isn't on minimum wage and hasn't been on it. I had a Saturday job 35 years ago age 15 or 16 and got paid, I think £8 for the day. I don't know if there was such a thing as minimum wage. It was in a newsagents, so nice clean work. The week before I started it I had a waitressing job that I lasted one day in - 7.15am start, 6.15pm finish, 15 minute break at 3pm where I had to ask for a glass of water, no food offered despite a café and I came away with £7.53 or something stupid. Even I knew at that age I was being ripped off so didn't go back. I was desperate for money though so happy to work but we've all got our limits and that waitressing job was mine.

Yikes I was thoroughly exploited as a teen. My first job was working in Spar for £1.90 an hour as soon as I turned 16. I worked one long hard shift on a Friday evening to begin with. I didn't even earn enough to make a withdrawal at the cash machine so had to go to the branch to withdraw my £8-ish wage. Out of that I had to buy my mum 20 fags and the rest paid my bus fare to and from school. Didn't realise until I was older that my mum was still receiving the relevant benefits for me at that time. She told me I had to pretty much pay my own way when I turned 16.

I honestly don't think stacking shelves in Asda or being on the till is going to help job prospects much if you're doing a degree and will eventually be going into an area of work that's unrelated to retail

I can see your reasoning but my niece had a Saturday job in Asda which she developed while she was at university. She wasn't able to find work in her field so she wasin a good position to take a full time role when Asda offered it. She's been promoted and is in a supervisory position now and is involved in strategy and marketing. None of that would have happened without the Saturday and casual work.

Agree with alltoomuch - we all have to start somewhere and I would think poorly of a 16/17 year old who turned down a job 'because the pay wasn't good enough'. . It's not just about the pay, it's about work ethic, getting on with your colleagues and 1001 other things that are involved with the world of work. I know far too many young adults who are out of work, on benefits, and turn their nose up at 'hard work'.

I've had some great jobs in my time, company car, great perks etc etc - now I am in a job earning less than the living wage and it is very interesting to see what sort of people 'get on' - clearly those who have a strong work ethic. We too have DoE students, work experience school pupils (the vast majority of whom come from molly coddled families and have no idea what a decent day's work involves). I have family members who are happy to live off the state (not genuine 'deserving' cases) rather than get off their backsides.

I think it does mean something on your CV if you have had a Saturday job - even if you have a degree (many of which don't mean you actually have the 'soft skills' needed to contribute to a working environment). I have done loads of recruitment in my time and would much rather employ someone who had a Saturday job rather than 'study' full time which we all know means Playstation/X-box etc. I have a teenage DS and will definately be encouraging him to take a part time job - any job - as soon as he can. And of course I won't be 'topping it up' to the minimum wage or whatever .

It's life experience, it's not meant as a stepping stone to a career. So it's fine to pay a 30-40 year old with experience £6.50 an hour but a wet behind the ears 16 year old is worth more than £3.70. No wonder today's youth are so bloody entitled!

I did already say that ilovesooty - see my post above when I mentioned Tesco. It depends if you want to work in shop retail though and of course now the Big 4 are doing terribly and cutting back massively. I think Tesco is taking out a whole layer of management to try fill that massive gap in income it had. It really depends what your individual circumstances are and you weigh them up and decide if it's worth it to you. If you've no prospects, whether that's because of the area you live in or the level of education you will attain, then possibly it is as it's a foot on the ladder. No doubt though it's getting harder and harder for graduates even. But saying that I still don't think it'll help that much, apart from in the odd case like ilovesooty's neice.

Of course he is being paid less, what is so difficult to understand. He has no experience of anything, let him learn and be paid commensurately!

if he works 7 hours that is £26.73... He could earn that or sit at home amd earn nothing.

It is difficult for the young to get work but he is going to do far better with something on his CV than an empty page....

What about if he wants to go to uni and get a job to help support himself there...Working somewhere would make him more employable.

I worked in a shop leaving school I earned less than colleagues that was 20 years ago ...I also earned more working 15 hours a week than my friends on YTS schemes working full time...Names have changes the situation not much

I hate the sense of entitlement that so many have especially when on the flip side I had some great teens in my shop doing Duke of Ed. But the ones that won't do even a full hour or touch dirty clothes? Also some of them asked me what my wages were and said they wouldn't do my job for that... they were in their mid teens and I was early 40s! Agreed, my wages were crap...but in terms of experience in that job...couldn't put a price on it.. my CV is all the better for it and I learnt so much..yes at my age...as we are bringing age into it (it was charity shop management, they only paid minimum wage, so more could go to the charity)
Recently on my local FB job site a 17 yr old was asking for work that paid slightly more than minimum wage and I said my local pub wanted a pot scrubber for the kitchens. His reply was... 'you're joking, right? Pot scrubber? You're having a laugh' Anyway.. I've applied.. because needs must..must be great to be so loaded and privileged at grand old age of 17 that you think you can pick and choose? I have bills to pay, pets and myself to feed...rent...

With first jobs, you are paying for the experience. It might be boring, repetitive, dirty, exhausting, challenging experience on the other hand you might gain some great skills and make new friends. You are also being paid for it...maybe not that much... but for the average teen it's probably not going to be spent on life's essentials... it's not a matter of needing it for getting through the day or not like it could be for someone ten years older , living alone...

My first ever Saturday job aged 16, back in 1994, was £1.80ish an hour. Christmas "bonus" was a meaty £3.00.

I'd encourage your son to take the job until something better turns up. "Washing mama's car" does not look good on a CV.

As an HR manager I can understand how you feel, my own kids have done the same, but the reality is most 16 year olds aren't as useful as they think they are. They have an awful lot to learn and we need to spend more time training them, very often it is basic stuff like how you behave at work. You might be surprised at the indignation when they can't use facebook at work. I've also had teenagers in fulltime work who were given paid day release and halfway through the year the college contacted me to let me know they had stopped going after the first couple of weeks. They couldn't even understand that this was basically dishonest as we were paying that time.

A year or two working with adults really does make a world of difference. Sort of knocks the edges off in a way teachers can't.

The teenagers I employ can quite quickly move on to full pay if they work hard and complete the training they need to do. I like to take them on in July and they work through the summer holidays so by the time they are back in school/college they have learned alot, harder to do if only working Saturdays. My main worry when they go on to adult wage is to stop they dropping out of studies as they suddenly feel rich. I never want to see them give up the dreams they have when they first come to us.

it may not be fair, but then whenever was life fair? It may be an ok wage for someone who has little outgoings - no rent/mortgage, car expenses, debts to repay, dependents etc. I'm sure a lot of adults on min wage have less than the amount your son will earn after they've paid for food/rent/dependents etc. (obviously I don't know your son's outgoings but am assuming at 16 they are fairly minimal and you won't charge him board)

YourMa thats pretty disgusting behaviour from your mum tbh

If the tasks involved in doing job X are the same regardless of the person's age, then the pay should be the same. Each job has a value to a company and that value doesn't change if the person is older. As for 'lacking experience', that's the same for any new starter. Someone getting their first job at 16 is no different to getting their first job at 21.

Minimum wage should be the same for everyone.

I'm a nurse. An actual, qualified, experienced nurse. I took 7 years out to have children. To return to nursing I have to pay £1000 then I have to do 150 hours of nursing work in a hospital for a grand total of £0.00 per hour.

I can say it's exploitation and manipulation, or I can suck it up and get on with it.

My first job was £2.50 per hour

Lougle that's a bit different firstly. You are paying for education. Most adults have to pay for education.
When you are actually working in the hospital though you should be being paid.
It's possible to do something and know it's exploitative. They aren't mutually exclusive. People do what they have to but that doesn't mean that they are being treated right.
Before minimum wage people were even more poorly paid but had to work to live and therefore 'suck it up' it still doesn't make it right that businesses exploited them. We don't have to just accept things as they are ya know. That's why positive changes have and do happen.

Tbh I don't think having a Saturday job in a cafe or something does much for your cv. I didn't work through college and uni but found it no harder to find work than friends who worked for 8 hours on a Saturday. It's not really experience enough.

As a 16 year old he will not be able to do the same things in a shop as an 18 year old, there is a whole raft of rules and regulations about H and S and working hours, not being able to sell certain things to customers etc. so a 16 year old in my opinion should get less pay but I also think the minimum wage for 18 year olds should be the same as the 21 year old minimum wage as they can do all the same jobs.

If its just a Saturday job I would let him do it for experience of work and earning some pocket money, washing the car for parents is not the same, that is what you do if you are about 12-14 years old.

The situation isn't going to change at all quickly.
The market is flooded with people desperate for any paid work right now. If an employer can get an older person with life experience and a proven track record of reliability for the same cost as a wet behind the ears child (because 16 year olds are children...) they are going to go for the experience.
A lower wage for younger people ensures they can get a foot in the door and prove themselves. (Yep. It sucks that they might be doing the same role, but as I said previously, it's not changing anytime soon.)
It's crap, but with absolutely everyone gaining degrees now, I think it's only a matter of time before experience is going to be the only thing that separates candidates when applying for jobs.
I would always pick experience. (Paid or unpaid)
YABU. Your son needs to stand out. He should take the job and prove he can be responsible and hardworking. So many 16 year old would love that opportunity.