Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the under 18s minimum wage is exploitative

238 replies

DaddyDavid · 18/01/2015 09:55

My son who is 16 has been offered a job at a supermarket. The pay is £3.72 an hour. I can't und why the minimum wage is lower for under-18s it seems like age discrimination. This has annoyed me so much, as I fualt it would be good for ds1 to get a Saturday job but know I think it would be better if he worked about the house and I pay him more aibu

OP posts:
alltoomuchrightnow · 18/01/2015 17:44

I'd hope so, former babe. but it was never me actually paying the wages, I didn't have a say... I think you should work hard whatever the wage, if you are being treated fairly

paxtecum · 18/01/2015 17:47

Morebeta: the 16 year old earning £1500 pa is only working 8 hours pw.

wobblebobblehat · 18/01/2015 17:51

That's absolutely shocking. I left my Saturday job at M&S in 1989 and was on 4.20 per hour then. That's almost 25 years ago...

Which supermarket is this? Will laugh if you say Sainsburys.

Original poster
DaddyDavid · 18/01/2015 17:58

To be honest it would be hardly worth him to work. Hes got 40+ years of work ahead of him. I think that the minimum wage in general is too low. I also agree that a 16 year old is just as valuable as an over 21 year old. Ds will be on the till or stacking shelves it's hardly something an adult is going to be that much better at. (Sorry if it sounds snobbish not meant to be).

OP posts:
formerbabe · 18/01/2015 18:01

Yes I agree....a 16 year old stacking shelves for an hour is no different to an adult stacking shelves for an hour. Its not about proving yourself or getting a foot in the door, it is about employers lowering costs and maximising profits in order to benefit shareholders.

MoreBeta · 18/01/2015 18:05

paxtecum - believe me 8 hours is what most CEOs are really working each week as well. Truly most CEOs are running companies so large that in practical fact they are run by the operations staff who have no contact with the CEO - ever!

In fact one company did an experiment years ago and sent all the senior managers away for 2 weeks. Nothing went wrong.

CEOs and are not Gods and not worth what they are paid.

As formerbabe very bluntly put it 'that's what they want you to believe'. Many CEOs and board members are frankly useless in real life and me and DW have met a lot of them. Plenty of shop floor staff produce far more value to the company

ilovesooty · 18/01/2015 18:06

*Hes got 40+ years of work ahead of him

If and when he secures employment. Doing this job now would at least give him a start, some experience and some references from the workplace.

AliceinWinterWonderland · 18/01/2015 18:17

I think minimum wage should be minimum wage for anyone working, regardless of their age. I've never understood how it cannot be ageism to pay someone less simply because they are younger.

That being said, I grew up in the states, where minimum wage is for everyone, however, I still am annoyed that people like wait staff have a lower minimum wage as it is expected to be offset by tips. Wrong on so many levels. Angry

Tinks42 · 18/01/2015 18:25

Minimum wage is shit OP. I wouldn't expect my son to work for that. I also wouldn't for standard minimum wage of £6.30 or whatever it is. It's absolutely diabolical slave labour in my opinion. Minimum wage should be set at £8 per hour across the board.

lljkk · 18/01/2015 18:31

Wouldn't the prices of everything else just jump by 23%, too, defeating the purpose?

23% jump in wage bill for many businesses would be crippling in short term.
It's a huge interference in the economy to have a minimum wage at all.

ilovesooty · 18/01/2015 18:35

I'm sure many would like minimum wage to be higher, or for the living wage to be adopted.

Those of you who wouldn't let your children work for minimum wage - are you happy for jobseekers to refuse a job offer on MW and refuse to come off benefits?

fluffymouse · 18/01/2015 18:46

Yanbu I think it is terrible pay, and not worth him working for that amount, especially as he is not being trained.

I would advise him to look for a better paid job. Lots of places will pay the minimum wage for over 18s.

bruffin · 18/01/2015 18:54

What about telling him to take and carry on looking until something better comes along. Surely that would be a better example to set.

orangefusion · 18/01/2015 18:54

What skills has he got that makes him worth more?
What experience has he got that makes him worth more?

Has he got rent to pay? A family to feed?

As he gains skills and knowledge his hourly rate will increase. It has ever been thus.

YABU

ilovesooty · 18/01/2015 18:55

This is a Saturday job. I doubt employers will be putting themselves out much to hike the wage for that. If he isn't going to accept it there'll be plenty who will.

alltoomuchrightnow · 18/01/2015 18:56

It gives the necessary experience for CV and to apply for better jobs
If teenagers keep turning down these type of jobs, I wonder how many will end up moaning they can't get any job, because they have no work experience/ history

alltoomuchrightnow · 18/01/2015 18:57

Yes there will be plenty that will...
Average teenager does not have the financial needs of someone a bit older

BackforGood · 18/01/2015 19:00

Wouldn't the prices of everything else just jump by 23%, too, defeating the purpose?
23% jump in wage bill for many businesses would be crippling in short term

This ^

and This

What skills has he got that makes him worth more?
What experience has he got that makes him worth more?

I'm quite glad there are so many around who feel it's beneath them / their dc to work for a low wage - means there will be less competition when my dc graduate with a degree and plenty of work experience / references. Smile

BackforGood · 18/01/2015 19:01

Confused bold fail

lljkk · 18/01/2015 19:02

I wonder how many people who are opposed to min. wage never worked for it? It feels like a privileged perspective to turn one's nose up at it.

bobbyjoe · 18/01/2015 19:03

ilovesooty, I'm one of the ones that said I wouldn't be encouraging my DC age 16 to work for minimum wage, mainly as other things are more important at the moment and the reward (weekly wage and any skill they might learn) aren't enough to offset what they would lose (less time to study, relax, do hobbies).

That's a completely different thing than being happy for a jobseeker to refuse a job offer on MW and refuse to come off benefits as 1) the 16 year old, in the main, won't be a burden to the tax payer, yet, as they usually live at home and it's not an either or case of get a Saturday job or be on benefits as they don't get benefits; 2) I don't know the current rules but I don't think a jobseeker can refuse a job offer, or least time after time. Saying that, if I was a jobseeker and had family commitments and was being forced into unsociable work in terms of hours that wasn't doable with childcare and all for MW I'd be digging my heels in big time.

formerbabe · 18/01/2015 19:05

You know I find it bizarre that the argument for paying ceo's so much is that you need to attract the best person for the job...however, at the lower end of the scale, we are now arguing we need to pay the lowest amount possible in order to attract the right people! Even scarier is so many on here fall for it!

ilovesooty · 18/01/2015 19:11

bobbyjoe I think you indicated that your children hada pretty good range of skills, experience and competencies anyway and I could see your reasoning.

However I suspect some of these picky teenagers (or those who have picky parents) will be driven to the back of the queue later by youngsters who can demonstrate some work experience. Given that so many graduates struggle to secure any kind of employment I think that's worth considering.

TwatFaceBitch · 18/01/2015 19:12

OP I think he should take the job, Because it would benefit him with experience of working. But I agree that it is extortionate.

This stepped minimum wage I think has done more harm then good. Jobs should be paid on experience. So no doubt the younger would be on less in some jobs anyway. When appling for an office junior you knew you would be on less. But could move up quickly. Also if I wanted to apply now for an office junior position to get me back into work/or career change, before I could have applied knowing it wouldn't be well paid. But now an office junior position wouldn't go to someone my age no matter my lack experience because the employer would have to pay me more then an under 21.

Also by the time I was 19/20 I was on a very good salary because I had leant quickly and worked hard and could take my skills else where for more money if my employers didn't appreciate me. But I fear that it would be a different story now, as like I said before most employers now just fall back on "well this is what we should pay for your age"
Again manual jobs why should someone work a physical job 8hours a day at the age of 17 for almost half that of someone doing the same job who 25?
For everyone swarking about "but they live at home, they don't have responsibilitys"

  1. You don't know everyone's circumstances
  2. What about 22,23,24,25-35 year olds who still live at home. Should they all get a shitty wage too?
HelenaDove · 18/01/2015 19:14

Before the minimum wage came in in the late 90s i remember seeing jobs being advertised in the Job Centre for 50p an hour £1.50 an hour and £50 a week. And there were no working tax credits for ppl without kids then either.

Many employers have got round the minimum wage by using zero hours contracts. But IMO there needs to be a proper living wage.