To wonder if many terrorists are not religious fanatics at all? Just nihilistic and violent

[fromparistoberlin73]

I have been reading the profiles of the Paris murders . These people don't strike me as being devout and religious folk. They all have a track record of crime , alienation and violence. I suspect the same of many others . Did they even give a shit about the cartoons? Or did they just relish a chance , a cause that allowed them to vent whatever festering violence they had?

This had been nagging at me for some time . To address the issue we need to understand the drivers , and it's hugely complex .

Rather than slating Islamic fundamentalism (and I am not massive fan) would we be better served looking at prisons and what goes on there as that seems to be the root cause in many cases ??

Let's for the sake of argument, label all religions ridiculous, damaging and nihilistic then.

Let's hope that one day, 'moderate Muslims' wake up and become atheists

Let's hope everyone does.

Surely a difference between Christianity and Islam is that (a) the Bible comes in two parts and (b) the Bible was not dictated by God to a prophet.

These two facts allow modern Christians to determine that the Old Testament is mythological mumbo-jumbo and that the New Testament tells them how to live like Christ. He set a pretty decent example as far as I remember (long time since I've opened a Bible).

Islam is one book dictated by Allah himself. Harder to deviate from with a clear conscience.

Apologies if my facts are wrong.

hidden it's not closing down discourse. It is me saying that the terrorists in Paris have as much to do with Islam as the IRA do with Catholicism. Books don't kill people, people kill people.

An intolerant atheist is not really any different to an intolerant anythingelse-ist.

It's just as blinkered for an atheist to say 'do it my way because it leads to my idea of social harmony' as it is for any other system to do so. For that is what they all say. And the moderates can be outweighs by the noisy zealots because, at root they are all intolerant.

The French are majoring on 'fraternity' today. Much more positive than endless arguments (whether violent or not) about who is 'right'.

'What with Islam being that awful, it's amazing more Muslims aren't killing people.'

I don't think Slaggy's being 'silly' at all hiddenhome? If religion's that destructive why haven't we imploded?

Do you really think all this will stop if everyone becomes atheists?

If any argument closes down discussion it's one that doesn't look at the reality of the situation and has an unrealistic blanket solution.

Hiddenhome, post of 16.23.

Exactly this.

16.27, not 16.23

Just pointing out that many of the most violent and deadly totalitarian regimes of the 20th century were officially atheist hiddenhome

And deadly terrorists Janine.

If everyone became atheists we'd find a different excuse for being little shits to each other.

Exactly, people need to be shits towards each other, so anything which encourages or preaches this (whether it is religion, politics, or belief in little green men) needs to be robustly examined and challenged.

Remember how Catholicism used to be during the Spanish Inquisition?

This is where Islam is now.

Ordinary Catholics during that time were probably perfectly nice people, albeit terrified, but this is what their belief system preached and thank God it's moved on now.

Islam needs to do the same.

So, we can't go back in time and reprimand the Catholics who were killing and rampaging during the Inquisition in the name of their religion. What we can do is stop the killing and rampaging in the name of Islam which is happening in 2015!

How does discussing what some Catholics were doing several hundred years ago help stop what some Muslims are doing today? It's like the Tories blaming Labour for the problems in the NHS. Deal with the problem now, not something that happened in the past, that is the only way it is going to be fixed!

Yes, that's what my post is saying ghost

hidden, sorry, it was more of a general argument against whataboutery. We cannot change the past, we can change the present and future however.

Indeed

Remember how Catholicism used to be during the Spanish Inquisition?

Remember how the whole western medieval world was during the inquisition.

Yes The Qulliam Foundation says Islam need to look at itself and modernise as does a man called Dr Tak Harregy who promotes male and female prayer - WOW and also tries to separate actual religion from tradition.

It's like the Tories blaming Labour for the problems in the NHS

well hold on....labour and the nhs was a mere 4 years ago and they have the nhs for ten years......so i think the tories have every right to question labors treatment of nhs...

but going back to medieval europe is another matter entirely

Slaggy

• alwaysstaytoolong Sun 11-Jan-15 15:37:49

Should I? Am I responsible for anyone with an NMC pin? Am I the representative for all Nurses?. Should I apologise for Staffordshire or Winterbourne?

No.

But if certain nurses are getting together in a cultish group to deliberately abuse and make patients suffer and working their way in hospitals and all care settings; claiming to be helping nurses, should care workers, nurse's then stage protests - YES YES YES!!!

gosh the quotes from the Koran someone posted are grim but ooh should they be put in context, they seem very specific.

I think Catholicism in the Middle Ages was political and alot of it wasn't biblical e.g. purgatory and it was a way of controlling the masses but change came from within e.g. Martin Luther, John Calvin.

this doesn't seem to be happening with Islam - why?

I think Catholicism in the Middle Ages was political and alot of it wasn't biblical e.g. purgatory and it was a way of controlling the masses but change came from within e.g. Martin Luther, John Calvin.

this doesn't seem to be happening with Islam - why?

Because followers of Islam are not permitted to question it. The cleric's word is law. Islam means submission. People who are born into into it know that they cannot leave. People have been killed of they question it or leave it. It is highly intolerant of any dissent. Most imams are not well educated people and know that having a questioning mindset is a sin.

Research who Mohammed really was and how he lived his life. How the Koran was written as well.

To call these youths 'disenfranchised' is way too simplistic and also patronising. This is bullying, plain and simple.