Page 9 | WIBU to consider writing to every man in the world

TheRealAmandaClarke · 2015-01-08T13:50:49+00:00

To inform them all (probably leave Dh out of the round robin) that I do not want to have sex with them unless and until further formal notice from me? As it seems that there is such confusion among so many people about the nature of consent I want to avoid putting any of them in the terribly awkward position of wondering whether simply being in the same room as them means they are invited to stick their dick in me. So is that an unreasonable proposition?

MaMaMarmoset · 09/01/2015 09:50

If you want to make jokes about rape watch some Frankie Boyle . There is a guy who can make cutting and poignant jokes about especially and other taboo subjects but make them funny too.

Poignant jokes about children with disabilities wanting to rape their mothers. Yes. Quality.

MaMaMarmoset · 09/01/2015 09:55

Yes men do get raped too. But almost always by men. So their time here.. coming up with every scenario in the world where a man could possibly be raped by a woman... and worrying abut minimizing risk of some infinitesimally small chance they could have a false rape claim made against them by a woman.. Men should really worry about the much higher chance of them actually being raped ...by a man.

Maybe they should start writing some letters themselves.

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 09:56

Gallic's comment may have been vulgar, but do have to admit to smiling, as I'd just read through the responses to the thread, and thought, "well, I get the joke, so what's their excuse?"

notauniquename · 09/01/2015 09:58

You are free to think that a woman who wants to be clear with men about her sexual boundaries thinks she is "all that" and needs pulling down a peg or two. Although i might disagree.

No trouble with you being clear about your boundaries.

The trouble is when you say that I need a letter on how to behave,
because you think that I (as a man and therefore under the umbrella of "all men") can't be in the same room as you without taking it as an "invitation to stick my dick in you."

The point is that many ppl believe that unless a woman explicitly refuses sex then she is consenting to sex by her clothing, proximity to a man, or general demeanour.

Yes, of course, and you said earlier that with your own husband you rely on non verbal clues...
I guess this means your dress and demeanour?

P.S. I agree that all men are "potential" rapists, in so far as all men have a penis and the potential ability to stick that into people (with or without their consent.) -that doesn't mean that all men will be rapists or that all men have sexual boundary issues.

BeyondDoesBootcamp · 09/01/2015 10:03

Well, i got it, clearly i'm in a minority though

oh and fao Namalt posters -

MaMaMarmoset · 09/01/2015 10:06

notauniquename I think there is something really distasteful about a man getting super offended that a woman is afraid she could be raped.

Because #notallmen

Maybe you should be more upset that women are worried about that? Maybe you should be more worried that your wife or your mother, or any daughters that you have have the very real and potential threat of actually being sexually assaulted?

I'm a white American. Do you think during the recent Ferguson protests when black people were saying that black lives matter.. And that they don't want to be shot by white people I was offended? No because I haven't shot anyone. They are not talkign about me, but they still have the worry that any potential white person could be a gun toting racist. Badge or no badge.

Maybe spend your time being offended and put it to good use. Debating with with other men why the culture we live in is toxic to women.

MaMaMarmoset · 09/01/2015 10:11

Yes, of course, and you said earlier that with your own husband you rely on non verbal clues...I guess this means your dress and demeanour?

I doubt her dress has got anything to do with it unless it says "fuck me dh" and even then..it's still not technically consent. Also are you proposing that a couple who have spent years together and will presumably be aware of the way the other works even with non verbal clues..is the same as a random on the street assuming that because a woman is wearing a short skirt..wants to fuck him? Or that her clues of NOT SAYING no means she wants to have sex?

Can you honestly not read your wife slightly better than random woman on the street?

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 10:15

notauniquename
I think you've got your chain of causation mixed up.
^The trouble is when you say that I need a letter on how to behave,
because you think that I (as a man and therefore under the umbrella of "all men") can't be in the same room as you without taking it as an "invitation to stick my dick in you."^

She hasn't concluded that you might be confused about the nature of consent because you are a member of the set of "all men". You and I are people, and Amanda has noted as follows: As it seems that there is such confusion among so many people about the nature of consent. Thus the letter to all the people with penises, as the widespread social confusion seems to mostly concern sexual activity involving penises. At least, I have, as yet, never seen a thread defending perpetrators of female-on-female sexual violence.

If Amanda notes lots of threads demonstrating widespread ignorance of what constitutes stealing, I'm sure she'll send an email about that, and I'll get one too.

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 10:17

Just noticed this.
^Yes, of course, and you said earlier that with your own husband you rely on non verbal clues...
I guess this means your dress and demeanour?^

I cannot imagine my husband thinking "non-verbal cues" meant "dress and demeanour"...

MaMaMarmoset · 09/01/2015 10:20

Well surely if you smile at your husband while wearing a mini skirt.... queentilly

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 10:24

Hmm, this could make work dos very awkward for married couples!

MoveAlongNothingtoSeeHere · 09/01/2015 10:29

Ooh yes, please add my name, Amanda.
Except don't send one to Clooney. He has carte blanche...

(P.S. Amanda, I can't quite believe the reception you've had on this thread. FFS. Rise above, my dear...).

Original poster

TheRealAmandaClarke · 09/01/2015 10:30

OP posts:

HaroldsBishop · 09/01/2015 10:39

Oh I get it, you're making a joke about rape, OP.

H-I-L-arious.

:|

MoveAlongNothingtoSeeHere · 09/01/2015 10:43

OP is (in my rudimentary understanding) MAKING A FRUSTRATED COMMENT about pervasive male attitudes to female consent. It is funny (to some, including me) by virtue of being ludicrous as well as poignant. Satire. FFS.

MoveAlongNothingtoSeeHere · 09/01/2015 10:44

(Sorry, I also temporarily lost my sense of humour there. As you were.)

MaMaMarmoset · 09/01/2015 11:00

I realise they're trolling, but do they realise that in their trolling they are implying that they are massively fucking stupid? Is it worth it?

MarionHaste · 09/01/2015 11:13

Sadly, this thread proves that your email will be widely misunderstood by men. I haven't seen the adverts you refer to but I feel that a simple catchphrase is required, for both sexes. I propose "Only a fool breaks the three date rule". ;)

YonicSleighdriver · 09/01/2015 11:30

Good post, OP.

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 11:33

I'm still trying to work out whether Zippey was being sarcastic, or whether I've reading invidible lines that just aren't there, mind. Any help?

If you want to make jokes about rape watch some Frankie Boyle . There is a guy who can make cutting and poignant jokes about especially and other taboo subjects but make them funny too.

Haven't read the full thread, but it's a stereotype generalisation to think all men are potential rapists. Also, cost of stamps and paper would be astronomical.

If we take this as literally as many have taken the OP, Zippey thinks it's a sexist generalisation to think all men are potential rapists but is absolutely fine with a comedian who publicly alleged that a named disabled male child needed to be physically restrained to prevent him from raping his own mother.

It's fascinating what some people call sexism and what they don't. These days, "sexist" seems to mean "doesn't privilege men's rights as a class over women's, especially the rights of white middle-class men". As the child Boyle vilely insulted was:
A) a child (literally, he wasn't even in his teens at the time)
B) disabled
C) mixed race,

he's a fair target, isn't he? The "poor menz" folk aren't interested in him.

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 11:35

I'm still trying to work out whether Zippey was being sarcastic, or whether I've reading invidible lines that just aren't there, mind. Any help?

If you want to make jokes about rape watch some Frankie Boyle . There is a guy who can make cutting and poignant jokes about especially and other taboo subjects but make them funny too.

Haven't read the full thread, but it's a stereotype generalisation to think all men are potential rapists. Also, cost of stamps and paper would be astronomical.

If we take this as literally as many have taken the OP, Zippey thinks it's a sexist generalisation to think all men are potential rapists but is absolutely fine with a comedian who publicly alleged that a named disabled male child needed to be physically restrained to prevent him from raping his own mother.

It's fascinating what some people call sexism and what they don't. These days, "sexist" seems to mean "doesn't privilege men's rights as a class over women's, especially the rights of white middle-class men". As the child Boyle vilely insulted was:
A) a child (literally, he wasn't even in his teens at the time)
B) disabled
C) mixed race,

he's a fair target, isn't he? The "poor menz" folk don't give a fuck about him.

QueenTilly · 09/01/2015 11:36

Sorry about the double post.

TheOfficialPan · 09/01/2015 11:48

UABVU, quite absurd and widely insulting, OP. There is absolutely no need to write to me as I do not wish to have sex with you. No matter how much you beg. Sorry.

Amrapaali · 09/01/2015 12:01

Aaand it starts again. Fucking Groundhog Day here, I swear....

notauniquename · 09/01/2015 12:01

I think there is something really distasteful about a man getting super offended that a woman is afraid she could be raped.
I'm not offended, and I get it.

I think that there is something distasteful in trying to be funny about rape. but there you go, we can each choose to address the subject in our own way.

I doubt her dress has got anything to do with it unless it says "fuck me dh" and even then..it's still not technically consent.

Exactly, so...
as I've now said a few times.
I agree that consent is not given nor implied by simply not saying no.
consent should be positive.

but. How can you on one hand claim that consent must be positively given and cannot be simply inferred, then also claim that non-verbal clues are enough?

Also are you proposing that a couple who have spent years together and will presumably be aware of the way the other works even with non verbal clues..is the same as a random on the street assuming that because a woman is wearing a short skirt..wants to fuck him? Or that her clues of NOT SAYING no means she wants to have sex?
No, of course I'm not saying that.

What I am saying is, rape is something that men do "to women" because rape is defined in law as that.

except, as pointed out there is a bizarre set of circumstances where a man may be raped, (such as a 16 year old girl sleeping with a 15 year old boy as the boy is to young to consent.

It was then pointed out that we can ignore that because most rapes are definitely not cases of women sleeping with young boys. in fact the case is so rare as to to be statistically insignificant.

An overwhelming majority of rapes are in the house and are perpetrated by (presumably once loving and understanding) husbands who "misread" non-verbal clues (or often at least claim to.)

What are non-verbal clues if not entirely about demeanour?

I'm not trolling, I'm not justifying rape, I'm not normalising rape. I'm pointing out obvious inconsistencies.

I can't help but agree with whoever wrote, "it's only yes when it's yes" is a much better and clearer message than "no means no, and the absence of a no doesn't mean yes, unless you're married and claim to know each other very well"