WIBU to consider writing to every man in the world

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

To inform them all (probably leave Dh out of the round robin) that I do not want to have sex with them unless and until further formal notice from me?

As it seems that there is such confusion among so many people about the nature of consent I want to avoid putting any of them in the terribly awkward position of wondering whether simply being in the same room as them means they are invited to stick their dick in me.
So is that an unreasonable proposition?

For clarity, we rely on verbal and non verbal cues. It is subtle, yet clear and, I believe, used by many people.
as do my wife and I, but that's hugely problematic.

Consent should never be assumed.
and must be positive,
but non verbal cues can be given.

is "allowing" a person to take your clothes off providing positive consent?

Olbasaddict I do get what she's saying, but I'm also pointing out that it's just not that simple. that's why people "get away" with rape, and why people can be falsely accused of rape.

Hmmm, I wonder how much that would cost in postage.
back of an envelope figures suggests.
63million people in the country, half males, = 31.5 million.
There have been sexually active 10 year old, (but that's the youngest, so expect that anyone younger that 10 doesn't need a letter)
so you can remove 12% of the population.
leaves roughly 27.7 million potential rapists.
the price of a 1st class stamp is 62p (and lets face it you wouldn't want to send such important mail second class).
gives a grand total of. £17,186,000 (give or take a few thousand quid).

I'm sure if a man posted a similarly ridiculous comment he'd be able to back track and explain also without any backlash that he was joking and that is clearly wasn't what he literally meant The OP wrote exactly what she wanted to, and people responded exactly how they wanted to. It's all fair.

And No.. I'm not rushing to defend "men" or "women" I will judge each individual on their actions.

The OP posted a generalised comment about a sex, in jest or not (although surrounding a very serious and popular subject on mumsnet at the moment)

I'm going to hazard a guess that she isn't an idiot, and knew the varying responses she would get.

I find it quite amusing that so many posters seem to be taking the OP so personally. "Oh, oh, my husband would never want to have sex with YOU. Oh dear , no, no, no. How dare you imply that." Whilst hoiking their bosoms.

It's actually quite shocking that so many people can't see past their own noses to actually get what the OP is saying. It's funny as their little rebuttals prove exactly what OP is saying.

OP YANBU. Could you add mine and my dds names to that letter please? Unfortunately for my eldest dd it's a little late as her rapist didn't get the memo.

My first thought was "can you afford the postage?"

I cant
E mail will help.
Or txt?

Oh sorry fuckerunderthechristmastree
I cant imagine how awful that would be.

FuckinUnderTheChristmasTree You can't believe how personally people are taking this while you make an extremely personal comment right at the end.

Of course you can see why people would take it personally then.

The stamps will cost a fortune. Couldn't you get a t shirt printed instead?

It was poorly thought through.

T shirt is a better idea.
But it is winter.
Jumper?

hermit that makes no sense.
She took it personally because of what happened to her dd.
Why would anyone take my op personally?

I would have said that your post was thought provoking OP but it seems to have had the opposite effect on so many. The opposite of consent isn't actively not consenting, it's the absence of active consent. What's the opposite of thinking? Im not sure, but lots of posts here provide good examples at least.

fuckin please tell me that you are just going to ignore hermit's absurd comment.

I think this was witty, and very apt.

I stopped over in Oman on my way to Thailand and went into town, with my husband. A man assaulted me (touched my vagina and breasts WHILST I was holding hands with my husband!!). No one did anything even though a few men saw.

I told someone at work about this. The first question she asked was "what were you wearing" whilst indicating a short skirt!

Really? So if I was wearing a short skirt, it would have been okay then?

I was most displeased as I had actually made the effort to cover myself to respect the more traditional culture!!!

I educated my dss.

They wouldn't want you.,they have lovely GFs.

My dm on the other hand thinks drunk girls 'ask for it'

Thank god she just had dds.

I should add- the point of my post was to support the idea that a concerning number of people have the view of "she was asking for it" when women are assaulted, and victims end up becoming further victimised.

The issue of consent is often where this comes in- I didn't TELL that man NOT to touch me, and (especially if I had been wearing a short skirt), by virtue of being a woman, many seem to believe I was therefore inviting him to do so.

Had I sent out the op's memo, as least no one could have accused me of being unclear about my invitations.

Does that help?

As many women if not more don't think it's rape unless by a masked stranger.

The body that rocked- you, like many others, are missing the point entirely.

It's not about the op thinking all men want her, for fucks sake. It's about how victims of rape have to prove explicitly that they did not consent to sex rather than perpetrators of rape having explicitly to prove that they did.

I wonder what your DGM taught her daughters, if that's what she thinks?! Hope they never experience assault.

AliceInHinterland TheRealAmandaClarke How the hell is my comment absurd? The idea that people cannot take it personally against men in their own families, but she can take it personally for her daughter?

Every person is entitled to take it as they want on both sides of the situation. Including those who may have male family members who have been raped, not just those accused of sexual assault/rape.

Some people chose to take your post as an insult to their partners/brothers/whoever because you said "every man in the world" completely their right to take the statement literally.

I didn't take the OP personally, or literally I took it as a post purely made to draw in a discusson about the subject. Which it did. That's why it's on a message board.

Can anyone please explain why we haven't seen a campaign that 'only yes means yes'? Is it because that would confuse the issue about being too drunk to consent?

hermit i already said why I thought your post made no sense.
fuckin made reference to a personal situation.
Other people have responded to a general and sardonic remark by taking personal offence. I too am surprised about that.

God almighty some people really don't get irony at all.

grump

Of course I didn't miss the point of the post. It wasn't that obtuse.
I was joking about my sons and the op of course but making the point that obviously not all men are rapists and we need to educate women just as much.

My DGM was born in 1900 and long since dead. My dm was sexually assalted aged 14 by her own bil.

I was sexually molested by a school bus driver in the 70s!! aged 10.

My dm didn't belive me. I have no ideas how old you are but behaviour like that was commen in the 70s.

My dds and dss are brought up differently.

Eveeyone needs educating about rape not just men ffs! As you would say!

I'll buy some of those t-shirts for my DDs. They can wear them over their outfits.

A thought provoking post notamanda

On reflection I have been very lucky that situations I was in never turned nasty because I have been in similar positions to many rape survivors and the man took my no (despite being in bed,naked) to sex as a no. From numerous stories I've heard rape happens to people who are drunk (me), who meet people in bars (me), go back to a house (me), take each other's clothes off (me), get into bed together (me) then when the man attempt penetration the woman says no (me). But in cases of rape, the man thinks she's teasing him and carries on regardless. I have been lucky that the men I said no to listened.

The OP is thought provoking because it might be implied that all those steps I took to get into bed with a man imply consent. But when the actual act was about to take place I withdrew any implied consent. However, in prosecuting rape cases all those steps of 'implied consent' seem to override when a woman (and it's her word against his) says she said no, but he carried on regardless. So what I took notamanada's post to mean was that any implied consent simply because she's there with a man in the same room is to be explicitly withdrawn. It does have to be said that there are men who assume you are interested even when you have been very very clear ("I'm not interested please go away") and continue to sexually harass you.

I think what the majority of posters are objecting to is that the men in their lives might be one of those I have described. I imagine there are few people who would recognise/admit that the person they love would be capable of overriding someone else's will. I will give all posters the benefit of the doubt that they truly don't have a man/son etc in their life who would do that. But look at Natasha Massey. She will be marrying a man who did that. Despite it being while he was going out with her. She truly believes he didn't rape anyone. And no one would want to think that of their loved one. But all rapists are someone's son/brother/partner perhaps. As long as we make it clear to those men around us what real consent looks/sounds like then we are doing all we can.

The rape ads a while back where the young boy pressures the young girl at a party. I had a very long discussion with my DH about why it was rape. He's not in the least big a domineering person so I can't imagine he'd have ever got himself into that situation but if he had then he may well have not seen it as rape. So I educated him about why. The OP is setting out a clear stall which is that no man should imagine any woman wants to have sex with him unless she says yes.