To think that a 12year old doing this is wrong?

[disneymum3]

Today I found out that my 12 year old niece is sexually active with her boyfriend. I know that her mum (my sister in law) knows what she is doing, and hasn't said anything to her / isn't bothered.
I feel that this is wrong and she shouldn't be doing this sort of thing at the age of 12. The thing is I don't know what to do.
Any advice on this will be greatly received TIA.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

whatsin - fantastic advice and well done you for overcoming your own past to be balanced enough to give the perspective you just have. My opinion is that it is wrong for a 12 year old girl to be sexually active but as the mother of a 13 year old DS I would be horrified if he was engaging in sexual activity with anybody in the next couple of years without me at the very least knowing about it.

[DawnMumsnet]

Morning all,

Many thanks for your reports about this thread and your concern for the OP and her niece.

We have no reason to believe that the OP is anything but genuine but we would like to remind folks that this is the internet and although we're awed daily by the astonishing support our members give each other through life's trickier twists and turns, we'd always caution anyone never to give more of themselves to another poster, emotionally or financially, than they can afford to spare.

OP we wish you the very best in contacting SS.

MNHQ

[flipchart]

Sadly the OP's post is not unusual. I work within a Social Work team (although not a SW but assist with some of their cases) andi have come across this scenario many times and with a bigger age difference with the people involved here and the parents didn't give a shit!

Truly shocking!

[youarekiddingme]

I've read this thread with interest. I agree the child needs to be protected. I'm not surprised by the young teens having sexy thing as I'm sure it happens.

But something about the way the DN walked into the kitchen, in front if aunt, and asked for condoms makes me question...

A) is the DN hoping another adult will be alarmed and help out in some way?
B) that people's sexual lives are private - if she's announcing it so publically is she really emotionally mature enough to be engaging in sex? How would any of us react if we having coffee with a friend and a partner walked in and announced the need for more condoms?
C) why is she having sex - is she announcing it because she thinks it makes her 'big' in some way? So continues it to be able to brag about it?

I'd report it OP - at least then you know you've done something that may help the DN.

[WillWorkForMoney]

I have a nearly 11 year old, and I've only just started to let her go to the shop on her own. Luckily she's very much a home bird so I'm hoping i don't have this to worry about. A 12 year old isnt even developed!

[Rebecca2014]

2 years age difference is huge at that age. I have a daughter and I think any decent mother would be horrified if their 12 year old was sexually active with an older boy. It's obviously bad parenting and hopefully ss will step up.

[WineWineWine]

She may well not be as consenting as the impression she gives.
She may wish she was able to stop this but doesn't feel able.
She may feel pressured and have an image to protect.
She may well feel completely out of control and would welcome adult help to stop this from happening.
Unless someone intervenes, no-one will ever know.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

It is perfectly possible to stop a 12 year old having sex - if you are prepared to put the effort in

Exactly how would you do that,you have hinted at a few things but given that you are such a great parent, be a bit more precise (granted I have only got up to page 6) lets go over some actual examples of things you would do to stop it happening.

[cottageinthecountry]

I would reiterate also that the 14 year old will be deemed as a child sex offender when he himself reaches the age of consent. Great start to life that will be. He needs protecting as much as she does.

[Icimoi]

Both these children are in danger and OP really has no choice but to report it, otherwise she is condoning what is happening. someonestolemynick, what it will achieve is taking that child out of this dangerous situation and supporting her to realise that she needs to take control of her life and her body.

[ghostyslovesheep]

erm as the mother of a 12 year old I'd stop her being alone or out alone and ban the boy from the house. I would walk her to and from school and make school aware that she was at risk and make sure they had measures in place to protect her

When my DD was 11 she had some mental health issues that made her a risk to herself - this is how I delt with it

effic if you are serious that social workers are supporting the sexual exploitation of a child that is legally unable to consent to sex you should be whistle blowing the fuck out of that

[Icimoi]

Needs, are you seriously suggesting that you believe there is nothing that can be done to stop 12 year olds having sex? How about starting with some very serious conversations where you (a) find out why and whether the reality is that they just need support in saying no, and (b) explain all the dangers involved? And then move on if necessary to collecting them from school, never leaving them unsupervised at home, ensuring they only go out with absolutely trusted friends etc? Of course nothing is foolproof, but you can at least aim to cut down opportunities whilst making it very clear that you love them and want to protect them.

In any event, what you absolutely do not do is shrug your shoulders and facilitate this.

[ghostyslovesheep]

this is also why kids need educating in sex and the law - for example if your 17 year old daughter takes a nude selfie and sends it to her BF she is legally 'making and distributing indecent images of children' which is a criminal offence

lots of kids are oblivious to the modern legal minefield they live in

[Hatespiders]

I taught this age group for many years, and I'm so worried about this lassie and her bf. The 12 yr olds in my class were immature, but some were over-confident and thought they knew it all. However, if I'd had any inkling that sex was taking place, I'd have been in conference with our excellent headmaster and involved ss through the systems and procedures in place at County Hall.

I worry about the effects on this young girl for the future. She's already set on a path which can bode no good, unless intervention happens immediately and she can have support and counselling to rebuild her lost childhood. The lad too is far too young to be having these experiences. So tragic.

Those who advocate doing nothing are morally quite wrong. It just has to be reported.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Needs, are you seriously suggesting that you believe there is nothing that can be done to stop 12 year olds having sex? How about starting with some very serious conversations where you (a) find out why and whether the reality is that they just need support in saying no, and (b) explain all the dangers involved? And then move on if necessary to collecting them from school, never leaving them unsupervised at home, ensuring they only go out with absolutely trusted friends etc? Of course nothing is foolproof, but you can at least aim to cut down opportunities whilst making it very clear that you love them and want to protect them

Not at all. I'm asking exactly what you would do. A and B are fairly obvious I'm quite interested in your following on moves.

A frazier competent 12 year old having that level of supervision in their life has significant potential to be an emotionally abused 12 yo.

[ghostspirit]

not everyone is in the position to take their child to and from school as they work. can ban the boy from the house. they would still find a way of having sex if thats what they want to do.

what if they go to the same school.. is it possible to keep them apart. secondary schools are pretty big.

at my daughters school the school nurse gives out condoms. just have to go and ask for them and they give them. and parents are not told

[Icimoi]

Supervision needs to be very closely tied up with support and education. The aim is obviously to reach a point where the child knows how to protect and value herself. Yes, it's very difficult; yes, it may never happen; but that is no excuse for refusing to try.

[disneymum3]

I feel I know she isn't bothered because I know my know my sister in law, as long as she has a peaceful life her kids can do as they please.
They aren't so open around just anyone, but they are all very open around family.
I won't go into too much detail about why the youngest dad isn't allowed contact as its a long story, but I will tell you it is the social services who stopped all contact.
I have rang the social worker this morning and told her what I know and my concerns, I also asked what will happen. She has said the first thing she will do is go and visit SIL, see how things are as she is due out anyway. Tell her what's been said, and take SIL' s views to it all. She will advice prevention methods. Also she said she will probably have a visit with the boys parents. Then make a decision on what will happen next. She has told me that even though she knows who I am she won't tell my SIL that it was me who contacted her.
I would like to say again thank you for all the advice I received.

[Gruntfuttock]

"at my daughters school the school nurse gives out condoms. just have to go and ask for them and they give them. and parents are not told"

To 12 yr olds?

[cottageinthecountry]

Oh I am glad you called the SW, but I hope they realise that it's not the SIL they need to speak to, it's you niece. I would try to ensure they speak to the niece so that she understands this is wrong on so many levels.

[ghostspirit]

well when i was talking to the head on the phone once. she said any student can go to the nurse for condoms

[whatsinanamearose]

Needs I would definitely be giving that level of supervision and more. No bedroom door, if they go to a friend's house, I want the parents contact details, will speak to the parent every single time my child goes there and regarding school- I would have no issue with being completely open with the staff, tell them what had happened, and expect them to facilitate my wishes while my daughter was in school. The time during the school day that she is expected to be there, they have a legal responsibility toward her well being and safety. Would they want child sex offences and rape cases in school? I think not. In fact, they would probably have deep concerns if it had happened at home and I am sure would help a parent follow the correct avenues and contact the right professionals to putting a complete stop to such behaviour.
And yes, maybe the 12yo would unjustly feel emotionally abused, but my own daughter could call childline if she wished. I would hope that our relationship is one where she will listen and know that I am doing what is in her best interests 'My mum is trying to stop me having sex and won't let me be alone, I am 12 years old' How will that sound to herself when she 30?
I think it is the long run that needs addressing here, what happens if a parent allows and facilitates the sexual nature of the childs relationship?
Child grows up with little to no respect for herself, possibly ends up pregnant. Pregnancy terminated would mean that the child has to grow into adulthood with the guilt. Pregnancy kept would mean a very poor continuation of childhood, propelling into responsibility way too fast, lack of social development, affected education etc. How would the child reflect on adult intimate relationships? Is it all about sex? Is she worth more than her body? Is there nothing more to life? Would she feel dirty, used, damaged, be able to mature on to a level where her and a partner could have a truly open hearted relationship without feeling disgusted with herself? How on Earth would the growing child feel about the people who were supposed to look after her, educate and protect her? And what if she ever came across a thread like this? I would say that this is enough emotional distress and definitely a hell of a lot more as damaging as an over controlling parent!
If the child does grow up for the next few years under a watchful eye of parents, they may feel that they are being treated like a child and feel anger, resentment and perhaps hate towards their parents. At a more sensible age (and hopefully much more educated) they can continue as they so wish. But the likelihood is that the child develops into a woman who understands a bit more about life and love, and may look back at what their parents did, and actually thank them for being good parents not out loud though, no teenager does that I would rather preserve my childrens' childhoods, knowing that even if they hated me for the rest of their lives, I did the right thing.

[whatsinanamearose]

Oh dear, I got carried away. Sorry

[whatsinanamearose]

disneymum3 you have done the right thing, just reading that there will be help and intervention has calmed me a little. I have been following the thread all day. And I am glad the boy's parents will be spoken to as well. Hopefully, as prevention seems to be the gist of going forward, it won't need to be taken further and both can be educated about the risks they are taking and how it might affect their futures. I hope your sil is receptive to the help

[WineWineWine]

at my daughters school the school nurse gives out condoms. just have to go and ask for them and they give them. and parents are not told

Not when they are under 13 they don't.
It's a safeguarding issue and they have a duty to report it.
And they cannot offer confidentiality when there is a safeguarding concern, though they might not involve the parents.