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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What would you have done in this situation? (Parent and child in shop)

128 replies

lomega · 02/01/2015 18:01

So I've been thinking on this probably far too heavily today but it's on my mind and I want to know if IABU and need to mind my own beeswax, OR whether (if this happens in future) I should have acted more.

I was out today up our local shops with my husband and DS in his pushchair. We were in a high-street shop just picking up a couple of bits and bobs and got into the queue to pay.

The woman in front of us screamed, not just raised her voice, screamed in her daughter's face (DD looked about 6ish), from what I could tell from the onslaught she was begging/whining a bit for something in the shop and then arguing when mum said no.
Little girl turned round at one point, her face was distraught. Mother was yelling at her for a good 5 mins (queue was fairly long/looked like new cashiers were being trained.) The child was standing crying at this point and wasn't doing anything else/wasn't saying anything but the mum kept harping on, 'when you get home' threats etc. Very aggressive and mean. When they got served and left the woman was still shouting and dragged the little girl out of the shop roughly by her arm.

I wanted, desperately, to say something and muttered so to my DH. He told me no, to mind my own business, and that saying/doing anything would be wrong as the child has clearly pushed her mum to the point of losing her temper.
I am a bit of a wuss and would probably shrivel if the woman had turned her yelling onto me but at least it would have taken the heat off of the girl.
I am kicking myself for not saying anything and wish like mad I'd said 'hey take it easy' but, on the other hand, I'm sort of glad I kept my mouth shut as if my DS was being a pain I'd take umbridge at a stranger criticising me. (Though I would NEVER shout in his face, swearing, in the middle of a shop, to humiliate/upset him...)

What would you have done? Sorry this is on my mind so much :(

OP posts:
JesusInTheCabbageVan · 02/01/2015 20:44

Aeroflot If you read the OP, she was swearing.

woowoo22 · 02/01/2015 20:45

Birdsgottafly

Surely you can't say that is true for abused children? Or is it? (well-behaved).

Would you not class what the woman did as abuse? I still think it is very very wrong.

woowoo22 · 02/01/2015 20:46

Sorry I meant to ask if being well-behaved was true for ALL abused children.

Typing on crappy phone.

becominglessofalurker · 02/01/2015 20:47

Ur oh was right to tell u not to say anything. I'm sure it was very uncomfortable but none of ur business. Winding up the woman more might have made it worse for the child either there nd then or later.
If u really feel the need to try to stop the situation I would totally distract from it. e.g. excuse me, sorry to interrupt but what aisle were ... (Something in their trolley) or where did u get ur top, it's lovely.

ithoughtofitfirst · 02/01/2015 20:49

Oh dear. This thread could get very ugly.

OP and woo that must have been very upsetting to watch.

lem73 · 02/01/2015 20:52

I wouldn't have said anything either. You would have made the situation worse. However I'm a bit surprised at the number of people who are saying she must have been at the end of her tether. How does this excuse her behaviour? You wouldn't scream and shout at your OH in the middle of the supermarket if you'd had enough of him. People would think you were a nutcase. Why is it ok to do it to a child?
I have a 6 year old dd who has had many atomic meltdowns over the years in supermarkets (Waitrose particularly brought the devil in her) and I wouldn't dream of raising my voice. I'm not an angel but I know it's the worst way to handle it. What worries me is that this woman thought it was ok to do that in public. What does she think is acceptable behind closed doors then?

Original poster
lomega · 02/01/2015 20:54

Hoping it doesn't get ugly, didn't mean to upset anyone at all, I certainly wasn't trying to be judgy on anyone else, it was just upsetting me earlier today having witnessed this...I know growing up my parents never spoke to me with such invective, that's probably why I'm a bit over sensitive to it now. Like I say in my OP I am a wuss!

The shop staff looked at the scene and there were a couple of raised eyebrows but nobody said anything or just looked embarrassed then carried on their work. I suppose they could only have done anything if she had been hitting the child? The only rough part was the woman dragging her DD out of the shop by her arm in an angry way which is what made me feel sad for the little girl..

OP posts:
WanderingTrolley1 · 02/01/2015 20:54

I wouldn't have said anything, no matter what I thought.

You have no idea what the circumstances leading up to it might have been.

No need for you to work yourself up into a lather.

SouthCoastSister · 02/01/2015 20:55

My mum used to do this to me in shops. Sometimes other shoppers joined in and gave me a hard time too. It gave me lifelong anxiety. I wish just once someone had stepped in and weighed in on my side, as I spent many years assuming the rages were because I was doing something wrong Sad

sharonthewaspandthewineywall · 02/01/2015 21:00

I had to follow up an event like this recently that a member of the public phoned through to SS.
The Mother was mortified and said on this occasion her child was completely out of control with behaviour and had never known them to be so challenging. She used appropriate behavioural management strategies usually but in a stressful environment and situation she found it very hard and acted out of character.

embracethemuffintop · 02/01/2015 21:04

If I lost it at my child in public, later I would be very disappointed in society if nobody stepped in. I would deserve to be pulled up for treating my child like that and getting out of control, and my child would deserve someone to stand up for her when I was at my lowest ebb - just because we are all capable of it doesn't make it ok. Someone saying something would snap me out of it and make me horribly ashamed and do better next time. Things like this are condoned by our silence - silence makes it seem like it's ok and socially acceptable. The more we treat it as totally unacceptable and that people around us will pull us up every.single.time, the less it will happen IMO.

GallicShrug · 02/01/2015 21:08

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" ... I think as a society we need to start making it clear that some behaviour is unacceptable.

Me too. That is abusive behaviour and I would try to intercede whether the victim's an adult or child (I am an interferer!)

In this case, my priority would have been to say something to the little girl, maybe ask if she was okay, and take things from there. I was a heavily abused child, therefore I know how crucial it is to have another adult's opinion that what's happening is not deserved or normal. Kind words from strangers have stayed with me all my life.

RiverTam · 02/01/2015 21:09

if she was swearing in her child's face, and if this did go on for a full five minutes (which is a pretty long time for such a thing) then it sounds over and above the usual parent pushed to the end of their rope. I've certainly got very cross with DD on occasion but I've never sworn at her and any rant I might have would last about 10 seconds. 5 minutes' ranting is a lot.

but I doubt anything you could have said or done would have helped.

Aeroflotgirl · 02/01/2015 21:10

I can't see the bit where she sweared jesus, yes five minutes seems very excessive but you have no idea the circumstances surrounding it, not good parenting but not abuse, unless she was threatening to shove the child's head through a window or something.

Original poster
lomega · 02/01/2015 21:11

FWIW she didn't look abused, from what I can remember she didn't look scruffy/dirty, thin/gaunt, no bruises etc. She looked extremely upset by her mother's yelling but I took that as her being humiliated and scared of the crying. Once her mum had begun to shout she went very quiet and didn't say anything more, just cried.
But of course there is no way of telling what goes on behind closed doors as you have pointed out. It was just not nice to see.

OP posts:
needaholidaynow · 02/01/2015 21:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyLuck10 · 02/01/2015 21:23

Did you stand there timing them? 5 min seems like an exaggeration as well as the 'screaming'. Hmm

GallicShrug · 02/01/2015 21:23

No, it is abuse. It is very intimidating to have a much bigger person raging directly in your face. Terrifying if you depend on that person to get you home safely, etc.

OP, there's no such thing as looking abused.

"Domestic violence is any violent or abusive behaviour (whether physical, sexual, psychological, emotional, financial, verbal, etc) which is used by one person to control and dominate another with whom they have had an intimate relationship"

From: Making an Impact, Children and Domestic Violence: A Reader by Marianne Hester, Chris Pearson and Nicola Harwin. 1998
Child Protection Handbook

mymatemax · 02/01/2015 21:28

I was horrified when I read this & then I remembered when my ds's were that age.
One occasion I collected ds2 from nursery, DS1 from school, following a shitty day at work & pmt.
DS2 was grizzly & clingy & when I got ds1 from school he was moaning & whingy & then almost tripped me up (accidently).
I saw read, chucked them both in their car seats & drove off shouting & lecturing them. God knows what the other parents thought of me!
It was a 10 min drive home & I was still nagging a bit as we walked through the front door.
Yes I was wrong & a bit OTT, ds1 was upset by my yelling (ds2 fell asleep in the car) but they are no worse off for it & it was out of character.

Maybe this lady was having a bad day too?

mymatemax · 02/01/2015 21:29

oops RED, noT READ

sebsmummy1 · 02/01/2015 21:30

I have noticed whilst out and about that some people just operate at a louder level when parenting their children/grandchildren. Their general talk is a shout, their shout is ear-wateringly fucking loud and everyone turns around. It's a weird thing and inwardly I judge but outwardly I probably would have said nothing unless it turned into a physical situation.

GallicShrug · 02/01/2015 21:38

From the NSPCC:
Emotional abuse includes:
• humiliating or constantly criticising a child
• threatening, shouting at a child or calling them names
• blaming, scapegoating
• not recognising a child's own individuality, trying to control their lives
• pushing a child too hard or not recognising their limitations

If it's purely a one-off, you would expect the raging mother to catch herself when you said something. All good. If it's an ongoing pattern, she abuses her child and you'll have at least done the kid a favour by showing her an alternative viewpoint. Either way, it's unacceptable and, either way, saying something's probably more helpful than standing by like a conspirator.

Canigetanamen · 02/01/2015 21:39

I wonder how much time these not shouting mums spend waxing their angle wings

5 minutes I think

WineCowboy · 02/01/2015 21:43

That sounds awful OP. I think I would have asked the child if she was ok without engaging the mother. I have done that before and no one kicked off at me.

It's risky though and you don't want a huge argument yourself I know.
I don't think this behaviour should be ignored though, it's horrendous.

Snappynewyear · 02/01/2015 21:43

So it's a decent thing to scream at a child for five minutes! Seriously? Five minutes is a hell of a long time especially as the child had stopped whining and was looking upset. And dragging her by the arm out of the shop is physical assault.

And as a SW Bird you are saying this type of parenting isn't damaging to a child? In my experience as a HV people who scream at their children in public scream at them behind closed doors and also smack. It's a type of abuse either way, even though it's not crippling violence.

Cannot believe all the people here who condone this.

And as for being the perfect parent of course I am not. I get angry, but as I said I picked my child up and left the shop. I didn't scream at DS in the car or at home, I stayed in control and did the time out thing. And it's 'lose' by the way not 'loose'.

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