Woo or not?

[babbityann]

Hello, I am new to Mumsnet. I would like to start a discussion on Clairvoyants, psychics, etc. Am I being AUBU to think that they are all charlatans just taking troubled people's money?

Either way though, what a horrible thing to say to your friend, even by some miracle he did know her daughter was in distress, which he wouldn't, why would he even say that? It's not like you can do anything about it.

The nob end

That's the point perplexed- they have never been agreed. You make it sound generous, but it's not.

I believe no one has ever made it past pre testing to get that far though.

I actually do think they believe that they have a gift though, or at least some do.

I had a friend once, he was totally fine and then he met his long lost dad. His dad took him to medium groups where they told him he had 'the gift'

He believed it, I think, though he rarely talked to me about it because he knew I'd laugh.

Anyway, as he knew my son had a severe neurological problem that took away all his skills and as a result he ended up being very aggressive for a time.

He told me he went to this woman's house and she said that her son had suddenly lost skills and got very aggressive. He said "I could feel an evil presence in that house, it had obviously taken over her child"

I almost hit him. I told him how irresponsible he had been convincing this mum that it was an evil presence and not telling her to go seek medical help and I threw him out and told him never to contact me again.

He didn't.

I've never felt rage like it.

There is variation and diversity in human perceptions. Some people can 'see' sounds in colour. It may not actually be that 'woo' to pick up other information in the environment either.

There could be all sorts to of things a person could semi consciously be picking up in the environment from electrical fields to the chemical communications between plant species.

There is much we do no know fully about the world we live in. There are also charlatans though who wish to capitalise on vulnerable people...

I think thye are all charlatans and find their practices abhorrent. I think people who get pulled in by them are more often than not desperate, vulnerable or in some way insecure and troubled...and the bastards play on that. I despise them all.

I went to a clairvoyant once. She knew nothing whatsoever about me but told me lots of things that would happen about which she could not possibly have known anything about. I wrote down as many as I could remember (about twenty) and they all came true. They were things about which I had no control (for instance how old my parents would be when they died).

The only real skills they have if they're any good is being sharp at reading subtle body language and facial cues, and being able to use subtle manipulation tactics. It's about being a good bullshitter.

Of course they do it for the money. Do you see how much a phone call costs per minute for these hotlines? If I had a lesser moral compass and better phone etiquette, I'd be doing it.

The statistical thing doesn't relate to all readings though. Like the example of predicting a traffic accident. Of course it's not unlikely to have a crash but if someone can predict when, who you are with and the colour of the car then you are likely to be more convinced.

My experience was to get help with something very specific.. It was all written down and whilst some of it could have been done with guesswork there were only four actual predictions. There wasn't so much information that statistically some of it would have to be right.
The three pivotal things he told me would happen have happened as described ( including detailed descriptions of people I hadn't yet met and an accurate time scale for meeting them).
The fourth (moving abroad) was the most general and was only predicted as being in the future which so far hasn't happened. There was no mention of specific countries or circumstances so that might fit with the statistical version. Or it might just be so far in future that things change.

I believe some people believe they are actually have the gift.

I used to go to the spiritualist church and see mediums every week. They didn't get paid a single penny so there was no money in it for them.

I don't believe they were charlatans, I believe they believed they had the gift.

I had many messages from mediums that were great, but nothing so mind blowing it could make me believe 100%. I was told a lot of things that were true; things that no one else could have known had happened unless they lived in my house with me. I have seen some good mediums who have got some stuff spot on, but nothing that gave me no choice but to believe, if that makes sense.

I am an atheist now and left spiritualism years ago when I grew up and questioned it.

I am not sure how these mediums did manage to get things right, especially as all I ever did was say yes or no and never handed them the answers like so many people do. Some messages were great, some were just so crap it was laughable. I had messages saying things about my granddad, how my room was decorated, the date my mum's first boyfriend died (my mum was with me) something about my son and various other things, and these were not things we hand fed them. I refused to say anything but yes or no.

I don't know how they do it. I think there is something more than just reading body language because my mums body language couldn't have given out the date of her boyfriend's death, but I don't believe they are actually communicating with spirits.

I do believe there are different senses though or senses are mixed up.

My DS has done a fair few freaky things in the past. For example once my friend was round and she was texting someone and DS shouted "James Scott!" Which was exactly who my friend was texting

Now DS can't read and even if he could he couldn't see the phone. I don't know a James Scott and my friend didn't say who she was texting and was very shocked about it all.

The only thing I can think is that she very very quietly mouthed his name when it came up, and DS could hear the sounds, which would match with the fact he has sensory processing disorder and very sensitive little ears.

Oh and I have had many predictions that have came true. Many dreams. I won't go into the details here but my sister can't believe I turned into an atheist with the experiences I have had.

They happened, they came true and I have no idea why I had them but I still don't think it was anything to do with spirits.

Oh and all the mediums I have seen wouldn't dream of charging and they often lost money in travelling expenses.

These are the ones I would not call charlatans. They gain nothing financially and only 'work' in the spiritualist church.

They don't have FB pages, books or take ads out advertising their services as they believe their 'gift' should be shared and not something that you should gain financially from.

So I believe that they believe they have the gift.

I have no problem in believing in spirits and the spiritual world though - I am a Christian. The definition of the word spirit is quite wide though and looking at the functionality of the word in the Bible you get a wider sense of how the word spirit can be used.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit

I don't believe spirits are necessarily dead relatives who are trying to communicate with us and some communications may be harmful - including people being exploitative of the vulnerable and self fulfilling prophecies.

We've had quite a few people post that a psychic "knew things they couldn't have known" or "predicted things".

How about you be specific, as specific as possible? Tell us what they knew. Tell us what they predicted.

One example was the date someone's boyfriend died. Unless you went to see the psychic completely on the spur of the moment under a false name, that can be explained by Google. I reckon Google and Facebook have made being a psychic very easy nowadays.

No, google can't explain it.

We went to church but no one knew our names, the medium wasn't local and had no idea me and my mum would be in the church that day. We were complete strangers to her. We didn't book the medium, it was a part of the Sunday church service where anyone just turns up if they want to.

It was years ago, way before Facebook. And even if she could have done a google search back then she would not have been able to find out this bloke had died. He just had a heart attack I believe, he wasn't in the news or anything and it was just a short term relationship with my mum, kids stuff. You will never find anything on google connecting him to my mum, that's if you could find out anything at all as he died before the internet.

So while I agree with you that google and Facebook makes it easier now it can't explain that message.

I still don't think it was spirits though. Maybe she just struck lucky.

U2 I think the modern rather narrow definition of what spirit is can be problematic. If you consider how the word was originally used, spirit was often used to describe an agent (non physical or unable to be physically detected) which can affect somebody physically or mentally. In a way quantum physics can come quite close to this in the way things can have a pre existent state.

Twentythree9teen that's what I was trying to say in my
Previous post- saying charletons are just googling Information is far too simplistic. It's more complex than that- honestly far fewer people would believe if it were that simply explained.

Also What sort of psychic takes details before you book? A name maybe? Of the person who books, not the whole party. So if you have a name you can google it.
You can google my name until you die, you won't find a thing about me, although you will find plenty about those who share my name . You won't find anything about my family- they don't share my surname. So where would you get info about me? It's just not that simple.

It's all fake, but not all believers are charlatans. Some truly believe it works and that they are doing good.

That doesn't help the victims of course, but it's not all malicious.

I don't visit physics though - if they do that indeed have any gift I think I would find it very intrusive. That sort of thing (future etc) is between me and God!

Quite possible some do have extra sensory perception though. I think some dogs can smell diseases, they have been shown to, haven't they?

Yes, dogs can smell chemical changes that are the symptoms of disease. I don't suppose they know what it means, but they'd sense a change.

Humans can't have the same sense of smell because we don't have the wiring, but that and other senses can be considerably magnified in some people.

why

Sorry, pressed send too soon.
Why is it can't psychics (working for profit or not)can't solve the Mc Cann missing child mystery and other similar cases?

Well, assuming they are genuine, it could be that they don't choose what they sense/pick up/get 'told'.

Because if there is anything in it it's not a sense that can be controlled or tuned at by request. Which is why you wouldn't be able to do it on demand, or "see" anything you wanted to see.

I mean, Madeline McCann, really?