Woo or not?

[babbityann]

Hello, I am new to Mumsnet. I would like to start a discussion on Clairvoyants, psychics, etc. Am I being AUBU to think that they are all charlatans just taking troubled people's money?

YANBU All supposed psychics are wrong about their claimed abilities (or they would be able to prove they possessed them, which they haven't...ever). However only some of them are charletans, as some (probably a minority) actually believe themselves to have the power they claim. Some are of course also criminals.

I too have had accurate premonitions and dreams which coincide with future events..."coincide" being the operative word. As in one should expect this to happen entirely by chance. I have also had dreams involving speaking to dead people...again as one would expect to experience entirely as a result of normal human brain function.

I have known people who clearly have some sort of ability, but they are rare.

Those who set up "sessions" and make educated guesses, then charge outrageous sums of money to those who are sucked in by it don't have a "gift", they are opportunistic leeches.

She charges £45 for a 'Reading' and a similar fee for other services, tarot card readings, etc.
Acrossthepond, did you report that person who ripped off your bro?

Spot on Icebeing!

It's quackery.

I feel sorry for your friend. Could you take her to a GP to enquire about grief counselling? If she's already in talk based therapy maybe she will be less vulnerable to pressure or invitations to further readings.

Anyway, I hope you manage to persuade your friend that the quack was talking bollox.

They either believe they can hear voices and need medication or are aware they are lying. I (hope) most are just delusional. But, well, they are holding down a lifestyle in many ways not acting like someone experiencing crisis. So I tend to assume they are vicious, heartless and pretty nasty pieces of work.

I have a friend who worked on a psychic hotline who really believes she has a gift. She told one of her regular callers that she couldn't help her and she should go and see a counseller! I think she got the sack!

gatewalker, good question! Those in the professions you mention, have to pass assessment prior to being able to charge. Hence, they aren't charging for their natural aptitude, they are charging for the qualifications, which enable them to use their gifts to help people in a professional capacity.

Others have 'gifts' yet don't need to pass qualifications in order to charge. Musicians and artists, for example. However, musicians and artists are unlikely to cause customers or potential customers significant harm, if they produce work of substandard quality.

When people pay, they need the results to validate their expenditure. If someone gifted charges, their 'customer' is more bound to believing what they've been told, no matter the detriment to them, as with OPs friend.

So, I don't believe 'gifted' people should charge, not because I believe they don't have a right to earn a living but because it places 'customers' at risk of psychological harm, because there is no sure fire way for the average (often vulnerable) customer, to decipher charlatans from gifted people.

I started a separate thread about this but I would be interested in hearing from those people here who believe that 'gifted' people actually exist....

How many times would someone have to correctly predict the toss of a normal 2 sided coin in a row before you would believe they had a 'gift' and were able to predict the future?

I'm opened minded about things like this, but I have to admit to finding the idea of communicating with the dead a bit sinister and creepy. You shouldn't mess with things that we don't really understand.

That being said I do enjoy having my "fortune" told from time to time. I just see it as a bit of fun and don't really take it seriously.

I had my palm read years ago and it was all accurate.
But I won't give any more detail because I CBA was slated last time.

YANBU I totally agree.

How many times would someone have to correctly predict the toss of a normal 2 sided coin in a row before you would believe they had a 'gift' and were able to predict the future?

I've never met anyone with a gift of future telling in that sense. For me, it is more, signs and messages (unbidden), regarding specific incidents, which have proven to be accurate but which couldn't possibly have been foreseen or 'known' by any other means.

I also had a palm reading the was spookily accurate.

Have you seen the Derren Brown palm reading episode? Everyone there thought it was spookily accurate until they realised he had told everyone the same thing....

It is all absolute bollocks, but just as there are gullible punters, there are also gullible 'psychics' who believe the stuff they say - so no, not all are charlatans, but all are misguided, and totally mistaken. There are also many (the majority, I think) who know full well that they're spouting nonsense and exploiting the vulnerable.

I think people really underestimate how often things happen in general...like one could predict that someone will have, or know someone who will have a car accident in 2015, and be very confident it will turn out to be true!

(around 900,000 people injured in car accidents per year in the UK).

So saying "watch out on the roads" to someone, whose Uncle then has an accident, could look quite spooky but of course is just plain bog standard chance.

I once went to see a psychic with a friend after my dad had died.

I realised pretty early on it was nonsense but once I realised that it was quite interesting to see how he went about it.

After watching the amazing randi documentary recently, I did lots of really online research. The most interesting was an article from someone who had worked with Randi in the past. She still worked in research, trying to discover what the deal was with these "situations"

She said generally thinking in the small scientific community who research this was that Randi is completely closed to any form
of "psychic" (I'm using that word in the absence of a more suitable one) - too closed- and that general thinking was his work/ revelations hadn't and wouldn't contribute to further findings in this area and neither would the million pound reward help establish whether there was anything in these claims or
anything to be discovered.

What she said was that general
thinking is more open than Randi's and whilst those who claim to be able to Contact the dead/ see the future are almost certainly charlatans, they believe it is very likely there are some people who possess a very honed "instinct"which they would
Like to study further.
This isn't something people would be able to perform on demand and is more likely to take the form of "I'm not getting on that plane because I have a bad feeling" than any other kind of "prediction". But they would like to study it further and believe there is lots more to be discovered about the way our brains can work from such people.

There was lots more info available to back this up. Really fascinating

The only gifts these people have is being better than most at reading other people (pro poker players could probably do the same) and being amazingly self confident.

...they believe it is very likely there are some people who possess a very honed "instinct"which they would
Like to study further. This isn't something people would be able to perform on demand and is more likely to take the form of "I'm not getting on that plane because I have a bad feeling" than any other kind of "prediction". But they would like to study it further and believe there is lots more to be discovered about the way our brains can work from such people.

Elton, I don't disagree with this theory and as someone who has known things she just shouldn't or couldn't, I'd be very interested in hearing more about the results of research of this kind. As I said before, I've found it to be more of a pita than a 'gift' and I've often wondered whether an expansion of certain areas of some peoples minds, is what causes that knowing, iyswim?

I don't personally believe in any of that sort of crap, but I have no reason to believe that every single person who does is a nasty charlatan who does it for the money. I'm sure there are plenty of well-meaning but mental misguided types doing it.

I don't reckon it's much different to a priest talking about God or heaven tbh.

I went to see a psychic after my grandfather passed away. Some bits were accurate (the stuff that was easy to guess) the rest, where it wasn't easy to read was utter bollocks.

I don't think they are all charlatans but I do think that 99.9% are.

I think the term 'gift' is referring to the person with the a ability possessing the gift rather than a gift to others, whether it is or not is debatable of course, I do believe there is something but cannot imagine a genuine person saying that to your friend!

AmantesSuntAmentes - A good argument, and one that falls flat when we look at the reports of charlatanism in the medical, legal and teaching fields. Qualifications count for nothing. I am not defending psychic charlatans, and there are many out there. But there are those who practise ethically and fairly, who have years of experience, who hone and augment their skills and gifts, who would never 'predict' or talk about the things that have been raised on this thread, and who charge a fee for their services.

We live in an age where qualifications are revered above all else.