Woo or not?

[babbityann]

Hello, I am new to Mumsnet. I would like to start a discussion on Clairvoyants, psychics, etc. Am I being AUBU to think that they are all charlatans just taking troubled people's money?

I went to one once with a friend. she used to go all the time and talked Me into it. she did get a number of very specific things correct without any questions or anything such as I have an underactive thyroid that was not under control, i practice a specific type of meditation she was able to name, she told me what started me to join meditation and the work i was doing with it, she said i moved out of home after an argument with my brother and mentioned very specific things about him. she said my three grandparents were dead but my nan being the stronger of the three was watching over me she wanted to give me a gift but not money as I wouldn't spend it on myself. my nan would never give me money when she was alive for that very reason.

of course she could have been very lucky with the above guesswork but some of it was very detailed and too likely to have been wrong if it was someone else.

What I do know is during our readings both my friend and I separately started to feel uneasy and subsequently became quite ill with very depressive symptoms. I went to a lot of meditation after that my friend didn't and she ill for a lot longer. neither of us went to one since I'm not sure it's something to be messed with. that probably makes me sound like a loon but I never want to feel like I did after that reading again.

Hmmm mommy2ash, could be a coincidence or could the psychic have put a spell on you??
(think they use Google and Social medium pages a lot too)

gatewalker all the other professions that you listed who charge for their services, can prove that they can do what they claim they do.
No psychic has ever proven any ability at all.
Derren Brown has proven that everything that any psychic can do, he can recreate using trickery and deception.
Why will no psychic ever prove their 'gift' under controlled conditions? Surely it would be in their interests to show that they are not just manipulating the vulnerable. The don't, simply because they know they can't.

since the advent of the internet, genealogy sites and online directories, anyone can set up as a 'psychic' and look convincing to those who want to believe.

same as religion; if it gives comfort and doesn't hurt anyone, it is fine. But like religion, it often does the exact opposite.

I think its a bit like ghosts you don't believe until you see one?

My science brain says its all hookum, but after going to one - have written in a another thread where the person actively pointed to me and told me stuff I found later to be true, with no fishing e.g anyone know a James etc, have gone back on the fence.

Wine wine wine many people have attempted to prove their psychic claims under controlled conditions- some, at the time, were even "proven" (uri Gellar was endorsed by a top Uni/ research team after passing all their tests in the 80s. Of course, those tests are no longer thought to have been robust enough and UG has subsequently failed a number of uncontrolled tests ie TV shows)

However as I said earlier it is thought unlikely that anyone with an as yet undefined ability would be able to "pass" Randis tests as they are designed ONLY to disprove, not to look for potential abilities which are as yet undiscovered - which is what those scientists really want to do- unfortunately they don't have the money and Randi does (although obviously £1m is far less now than at the time it was nominated) so if you're referring to Randis £1m
Controlled testing, that is very flawed in itself.

Of course they're all charlatans.
They're either deluded and genuinely believe, or they're knowingly lying.
It's actually a very clever skill, cold reading but none of them are clever enough to fool experts when they're tested properly.

You'll get plenty of replies defending them I expect. People want to believe so badly.

Randi's tests are NOT designed only to disprove.

Randi's tests are designed with the full cooperation of the claimant and are individual to the claimant and their supposed abilities.

That's not what the scientists who have worked with him say Janice. I presume they know more than you or I about it.

Is your friends DD so distressed it requires money to line this woman's pocket to rectify?

Most of them are very good at reading people and some are very happy to exploit- think 'the Mentalist and Derren Brown.

And with the invention of social media if a 'psychic' knows who you are they could easily research and find out all kinds of information you think isn't given.

Weirdly though I have met one I believed. She doesn't charge money or exploit people.

newyears, she offered to work with my friend , telling her it would take about 6 sessions to help her daughter get peace!
Thankfully, she did not go back to this cruel money grabber, but, it took some convincing.

Cruel money grabber indeed. She's a fraudster, shame there's no one to report her too.

YY about Sally Morgan pretending to speak with dead children and mimicking their voices. Evil bitch.

Sally M is definitely a charlatan. She was finally outed at a big event in Dublin.She thinks she is so witty too and can be very vulgar. She is estranged from her own daughter and her hubbie is (allegedly) a bigot!

Yes he was caught on video a while back being a bigot and SM had to make a show of being angry and upset and having to "consider her marriage". IOW, she probably gave him an earful for making her look more of a cunt than usual, for being married to an arsehole as well as being one.

I'm an atheist, but I'd like to think there's a special place in Hell reserved for the likes of Sally Morgan.

I think one of the things which can damage a sceptics authority on this debate is the lack of acknowledgment as to how clever some of these fraudsters can be. Often a sceptics explanation as to how fraudsters are reading is very simplistic and unsophisticated. This leads believers to dismiss what theyre saying because its unrealistic- whereas if sceptics could be a little more well, respectful (not the right word, as why would why want to respect them) for the level of manipulation and complexity that goes into the deception, acknowledging that in some cases it really is very smart, I think the debate would be richer and it would more than likely help the sceptics argument.

Of course you can get the cheap, nasty and crap fraudsters who just throw out a load of crap and hope some sticks, but for the really good ones, it is FAR more complex and its very likely most sceptics have no idea how theyre doing it. For example, going back to James Randi, one of the biggest fraudsters he exposed was a healer guy. It was a long time ago (in the 70s I think) but this guy was a multi millionaire from his healing, filling entire stadiums with paying customers.

James Randi knew he couldnt heal people, couldnt use his gift to diagnose them (he would tell complete strangers I know youve come here because you have parkinsons. After a little ceremony the parkinsons was cured. Not only was he not told by the participant what illness they had, but they believed themselves healed. So 2 types of deception I guess) BUT Randi, a magician who had spent his life exposing frauds, didnt know how he was doing it. It took years, a undercover operation infiltrating the guys staff and bugging the sound system etc. before they discovered he was being fed information through an ear piece.

Granted, it was some time ago. But if Randi didnt know then, how can all these posters claim to know how people do it now just from watching a few Darren browns? The simplification of what is a complex issue is also partly to blame for people continuing to believe IMO.

Incidentally Sally Morgan was caught using the same ear piece process a good 40 years later. Shows how smart she is, LOL. Shes one of the ones who is easy to work out

That's odd, those boxes are commas!

Mmmmmmm. I am sure there are many charlatans operating or those who play things by ear- I was never really bothered either way.

However.

Popped to a couple for the want of something to do, local community centre type gathering with tea and biscuits and no 'famous names' as mediums. The chap who was on this particular night came out with information that no one else (apart from close family members) knew about our family, it was detailed and accurate and he asked for no leading information at all. He then went on to provide further information which he said would be verified in the future. It was. It also happened in the 1940's and was not in any records.

I am unable to explain this other than he had a genuine gift.

It's all total rubbish. Statistically speaking most people will at some point dream/think something that ends up happening. You remember it because it's unusual.

Everyone "blocks out" the thousands of thoughts that never happened.

People who charge for readings are just fraudsters. Pure and simple and quite frankly should be put out of business or better still prosecuted.

Some may kid themselves they have special powers but there has NEVER been a successful psychic event that has taken place under controlled scientific conditions - given the number of so called "gifted" if there was anything in this at all at least one "psychic" should have been able to prove their ability - but no, never happened.

The Randi tests are actually pre-agreed between the testing team and the 'psychic'.
Considering the kind of money involved I think this is exceptionally generous.
Still never been won.

I was once told "your son is very healthy and very clever" by one medium my friend swore by. Guess he saw the lovely smiling photos and the educational toys all over my house.

I said

"Actually he has severe health problems and disabilities, including severe learning disabilities"

(Not saying I don't think he's clever in his own way, but he's certainly not fucking healthy FFS)

My friend never used him again. Idiot.