To hate this man who said 'cancer is the best way to die'

[Sallystyle]

Stop wasting billions trying to cure cancer, it's the best way to die,' says former BMJ editor

So death from cancer is the best ... You can say goodbye, reflect on your life, leave last messages, perhaps visit special places for a last time, listen to favourite pieces of music, read loved poems, and prepare, according to your beliefs, to meet your maker or enjoy eternal oblivion.

Well, fuck him I say.

That quote about not curing cancer is taken out context. He's saying that prolonging life with a billion 'treatments' isn't always a good thing, as all it does is prolong pain.

That isn't what he meant... he meant that in an ideal world we would stop allowing overambitious oncologists suggesting expensive, often painful treatments that won't help, allow all involved effective palliative care and support. But the itv piece has wholly traduced that message and, obviously, caused a lot of distress.

Nomama Thanks for saying that, so I didn't have to

Sorry for your loss U2, I've not read the article in question and even if there is a 'context' it's still bollocks.
I'm sure if I could ask my Dsis she would rather have held out for a dementia option In her 70's than die in her forties.

Just off to visit my Dm who looks like she's a had a bucket of scolding water chucked at her neck following 6 weeks of daily radiotherapy, she can't eat, can barely speak.

Which is why (repeating myself) we should be having a national debate about end of life care. Listen to the Reith lecture I linked to above. It makes a lot of important points in a very accessible way. We should be lobbying our politicians to improve palliative care and care for people with chronic conditions. There's an election coming soon, so it's a good time to catch their ears!

Pulps, seriously read the blog. The itv version, as quoted by U2 initially, is extremely emotive and misleading.

I hate such crap. A fuckwit journalist wanting a good headline stirring up such crap without thought. The original blog is thought provoking...blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2014/12/31/richard-smith-dying-of-cancer-is-the-best-death/

I think what he is trying to say is that there is a line beyond which further intevent ion may extend life but at the expense of quality. It's a judgement call that has to be made and can get lost in the constant battle to extend life. But it's also a rosy view - the experience on here shows that!

I think it's an interesting viewpoint. I'd still choose a sudden heart attack in the garden on a sunny afternoon for myself, but he's entitled to his opinion and he argues it well. No need for anyone to get hysterical about it.

But stay away from overambitious oncologists, and let’s stop wasting billions trying to cure cancer, potentially leaving us to die a much more horrible death.

I read this to mean that we should accept death from cancer as to be cured of cancer means we will then die from another cause which he believes would be worse.

I do not think he is simply saying that oncologists should not be making vain attempts to cure people for whom palliative care would be more appropriate.

Cancer destroyed my family. My mum died in fear and pain, even though the hospice tried their absolute best for her. The months leading up to her death were terrifying for her and my dad and shattered my heart into a million pieces. She had such a dreadful time at the end and I'll never get over seeing her like that. Neither did my dad and he died 3 months later. Nothing about knowing she was going to die made things easier for my lovely mum.

I've seen this reported in several online papers, each of which have taken what he has said massively out of context. Absolutely shite journalism.

That's just that one interpretation of a single line though. The rest of the blog looks at other aspects of death, leading to the conclusion that, for some, it may be better to know that they are dying so they can 'fix' everything and be allowed to die with dignity.

He does say his pov is very romantic, relying on 'time to say goodbye' as a panacea for all.

Very interesting topic.

As a cancer sufferer, stage 4, but still alive and kicking, I can fully see his point. I too would prefer to go with a further metastasis than drop dead with a heart attack. I say that from the point of view of watching my parents exist, not live at the moment (dementia and disability), my FiL who had a massive heart attack and died a fortnight after retiring and a friend who died very suddenly.

After my diagnosis, I cleared out all my shameful drawers (!), went backpacking in Thailand, had long talks with family about, well, everything.

And then, I did not peg out!

BUT, knowing gave/will give me the opportunity to do it all again Fancying South Africa again next time!

Sorry if this seems to be a flippant post, it is not. It is a reflection that a diagnosis is easier for the patient to deal with than those around them, and it all comes down to personal preferences in the end.

Sorry, going off topic, but I agree wholeheartedly with his sentiments.

Wilbur, I know what you mean. My Nana died in much the same manner. I read his blog as saying that had the focus been on making my Nana's end comfortable, family focussed and calm, rather than medically focussed and ever bloody hopeful/interrupted with another possible treatment, she may not have spent so long being uncomfortable and scared.

I've not read the article in question and even if there is a 'context' it's still bollocks. I'm sure if I could ask my Dsis she would rather have held out for a dementia option In her 70's than die in her forties.

I am not having a go PulpsNotFiction but in your own words, that's bollocks. Context is everything. It's not something you can put in inverted commas.

I really don't want to get deleted for a PA because it's not. I am using your own very offensive word against you. You also boast about not having read the original article and still condemn the author, which is a rude thing to do, is it not?

IMO you cannot know how you would want to die until you get there. Very few of us get to choose and as I said, when we do, that choice is thrust upon us.

My friend's mum died in her early 50s after a slow decline from Huntingdon's which had her in a home for about eight years knowing no-one and nothing.

My friend has a 50/50 chance of inheriting it and is getting into the danger zone. There is a test. After extensive counselling she has decided not to take it. Would you or your sister like that?

My father died in his early 70s which is pretty young these days. Alzheimer's robbed him of dignity and us of a father. It was horrible, but that's just the way it goes. He could have died of a heart attack 10 years earlier. That would have been a more dignified death, but he'd have missed out on the next eight years of a constructive life of loving and being loved.

I repeat: I'm genuinely not having a go. Emotions around this subject are always going to run high.

I just wish people would read and think before reacting. I think the article is valuable and his heart-felt view - not bollocks.

I agree that palliative care needs to be better. It took 4 hours for the nurses to get to my children's dad the day he died to give him more morphine. He was delusional and scared and screaming out in agony; I had never heard a sound like it before! I am still not sure why he was in so much pain the days before he died, they would only give him enough drugs to take the edge off the pain and it wasn't until that last day that they gave him enough morphine to make him feel no pain. I guess there must have been a reason but all three of them had intense pain right to the end.

I think the BMJ article is a very thoughtful piece indeed.

Theres a difference as well between a good death for the person concerned, and for their family. I've personally known people who had very sudden, but peaceful and (as far as anyone could tell) painless deaths - but in both cases their family had absolutely no ability to say goodbye or say the things they wanted to, and found that very hard.

OTOH, my mum is dying of dementia. Her brain is being eaten away piece by piece (you can see the black holes on her brain scan) and with it her ability to do anything - including eating, drinking, talking, using her hands. My witty, intelligent, loving, bookworm of a mum is now a shuffling shell, and its only 6 years since we first noticed the signs - and who knows how long she'll live. In the meantime, she'll have been sobbing last night because she doesn't understand the fireworks, and can't understand dad explaining to her about them.

Yes, theres no ideal death, but when death is predicted, theres a lot that can be done for patient and family to make it as good as possible, and it needs talking about

I happen to agree with him too. For myself the very worst living hell would be to spiral into dementia, nor would I want to be in hospital for weeks/months as my organs failed one by one or suddenly die without any warning. I would like to have the time to place my affairs in order before I died with my dignity intact.

Cbob it is awful. I hate my mam disappearing in front of my eyes. She too sobs with fear of just not knowing basic things any longer. It is truly heartbreaking. My earlier post may have seemed flippant, but I would honestly prefer to go anyway but that.
It is the most cruel thing of all.

Sorry if this seems to be a flippant post, it is not. It is a reflection that a diagnosis is easier for the patient to deal with than those around them, and it all comes down to personal preferences in the end

No it's not flippant at all toooldtobearsed. That's exactly how I took the article and the attitude of the person I mentioned earlier who had terminal lung cancer.

Yes, their views might be idealised, but we're allowed to hope, aren't we? After all, we're encouraged to write a birth plan with the knowledge that it all might go out of the window and probably will .

Enjoy South Africa. I've never been but everyone says it's gorgeous. Long flight but what's really attractive to me is that there's virtually no time difference so apparently there's no jet lag so you can just step off the plane and go. I like that.

My dad dropped dead of a heart attack this year during a time we weren't speaking after he did something terrible. I never got to make my peace with him.

Completely agree with the article.

First all the best to my fellow survivors of cancer and to those who are still there.

Now as for this wretched editor: what does he know unless he has been there?

A massive heart attack in my sleep for me, but I am well aware that that is selfish.

I think there is a case for having enuthansia like Holland and Belgium.

Aggressive treatment of terminal cancer in the elderly does not always make sense. That is not the same as saying we should not do research to find a cure for cancers. Cancer is not one disease and the age and general health of the victim needs to be considered.

He's making value judgements about 'overambitious oncologists' and 'wasting billions', though, as well as comparing modes of death from diseases that are very individual.

Simplistic and naive at best, ignorant and stupid, too.

Having nearly died this year myself from something that caught me unexpectedly -one minute I was doing the housework next minute I was unconscious on the floor not breathing - I would rather have the protracted death personally. Going that suddenly isn't fair on the person dying and isn't fair on the family. So for me I'd say the article is right so op yabu. I also say this as someone who's lost family members to cancer.

I also think more discussion needs to be had about palliative care and managing people's expectations, chemo and radiotherapies aren't always best for the patient