To ask what's so wrong about being passive aggressive?

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I am genuinely interested to know; it seems to be the biggest crime possible on Mumsnet. I assume it's because people think honesty should trump everything else, and there is obviously truth in that. But, as any AIBU aficionado knows, there are so many shades of social nicety, and so many possible reasons for what we perceive to be bad behaviour, I can't see why the suggested first course of action is aggression (as opposed y

I HATE the "did you mean to be so rude", it really really grinds my gears!

Why would you say it? Obviously if someone has been rude, they've been rude! Why can't you just say "that was very rude" instead of trying to be snarky? Arghhhh!

Although it did inspire my name, which makes me laugh as I've had people say "you're not living up to your name, you're nice" AND some people say "I see you're living up to your name"

I disagree Cruikshank :) I see it as passive-aggressive because it avoided being assertive about dealing with the issue of the food being late/not arriving, but still raised the issue in an indirect/oblique and aggressive/sarcastic manner.

I just get a bit confused. Are you being a twat? Or just asking a straight question? Did I take it the wrong way? Was that a dig?

Just say what you fucking mean.

I don't wear make up and for some reason this seems to bring out the worst PA comments from people. Unless I've got a chip on my shoulder but people say things like "oh you're so brave not to care what people think" and "I wish I could not wear make up but at our age we really have to"

Just say something like "you can't polish a turd" - I'd take it better!

Ooh MrsDeVere, that really annoys me too. Can't stand people playing the martyr. I have a family member like this. So tiring, you can't have a "normal" conversation.

rockinghorse, you can think what you want, but that's not what it actually means. MrsDeVere, your example isn't passive aggressive either.

Stop getting passive aggressive wrong!

I think I may have to hide this thread.

Cowardly manipulative behaviour used by people who simply don't have any assertiveness skills and any idea how to build honest relationships or interactions.

It's manipulative and makes the other person doubt themselves. It's also a way of getting what you want but still looking like the good guy. It's like loading the gun but leaving it to someone else to fire it and then they get the hassle. Passive aggressive cowards can do as much damage over time as an aggressive bully. IMO

Passive aggressive is a fairly broad concept, cruikshank. Perhaps you're referring to the DSM definition of passive aggressive behaviour disorder?

I think most people understand passive aggressive behaviour to be when people fail to communicate their feelings in an honest way but still find some way of letting the other person know that they are displeased.

I'm not sure why you're getting angry about that though.

I think that MrsDV's example is quite passive aggressive, myself. It's that sort of pretending not to be arsey while actually been very arsey indeed

I remember during assertiveness training at work that "passive aggressive" could mean things like manipulating people to do stuff you want by using flattery etc. e.g. "hi sarah, oh you are so fantastic at sorting out computers, could you just quickly have a look at mine, it's doing that thing again". The end result is they can't say no without feeling guilty. Assertive people make the request directly in such a way that the person can agree or refuse politely.

*being, not been sorry

I've also wondered what's wrong with passive-aggressive, on the assumption that aggressive-aggressive is the alternative.

I have googled passive-aggressive more than once to get clarity on meaning. It's very hard to understand what passive-aggressive means because (I think) most examples of it are wrong.

I'm not convinced that assertive is an alternative: why be aggressive at all if assertive had any chance of working?

You can't tell your boss to fuck-off, you can't negotiate with the scary room-mate who you know has stolen/broken your stuff, you can't openly confront the violent partner you are living with. (The nutter in question will probably interpret "assertiveness" as aggression in any case.)

Passive aggressive is a tactic for people in a position of weakness, where assertiveness or aggressiveness are not options.

Somewhat comical example: Someone punches me in the face. I'm likely to get the worst of things if I punch back. (i.e. aggressive-aggressive is not an option.) Should I assertively ask him not to punch me in the face again? That would be ridiculous and humiliating: if he had any concept that punching was wrong, he wouldn't have done in the first place. This is a scenario for passive-aggressive retaliation, if anything.

It's sulky, it's weak, it isn't a nice character trait Yes, Cruikshank I think you have diagnosed it for me. I was confused by other people's definitions of passive aggressive on here.

YesIDidMeanToBe maybe people really are saying what they think?! But you're right, you can't polish a turd.

Thanks everyone for your interesting responses. Now I'm off to find someone in RL to bully and manipulate.

All the tapped and manners in the world cannot hide the facts when you actually hate somebody or hate something they do and you want them to know about it.
I think it's better to try and cultivate tolerance.

Tapped? Tact.

Sorry, theoretician, I don't understand your example. Surely calling the police would be the assertive option? Unless you were in immediate danger of further assault in which case you'd just be working on survival mode and all bets would be off.

In examples where I've read of people referring contemptuously to passive-aggressive behaviour by someone else, my take has often been that the complainer is a bully who doesn't like tactics they can't counter. Of course a stronger/more aggressive/more articulate/more assertive person is going to want someone with a problem to be open and honest with them: they know they are then going to get the best of any confrontation. They use the insult "passive-aggressive" to try and shame their victim into tactics that give the bully rather than their victim the upper hand.

I think being PA is actually the best way of dealing with some people. Not everyone of course. But i have certain family members who PA is the only way to make them realise you are pissed off. Even if i said calmly and gently 'i don't like it when you do that, it makes me feel x' they would cry and accuse me of being aggressive upsetting them etc.

But if i make a few PA comments it kind of lets them save face, realise i'm fucked off and they can test and adjust their behaviour. I actually think it's a healthy and 'polite' way of letting people know you aren't happy, without causing a major hoo har. They of course can passively aggressively let you know they understand what you mean but think you are a twat and then everyone can passively aggressively ignore each other with an annual social nicety like a brief christmas card/weak thin lipped smile at the xmas work party and no one has to get all argy bargy. I like that.

Passive aggressiveness is sly, and designed to make someone else feel horrible. Normally alongside denying that you are causing upset. I can't stand slyness & underhandedness, nasty traits to have

MrsKoala You live in my world too. Isn't it nice?