To think my brother does not have bipolar disorder?

[CundtBake]

My brother is early 20s and lives at home with our parents.

He doesn't work, he claims ESA (I think that's what it's called?) by saying he is depressed and basically spends it all on weed.

He is so lazy. His new tactic seems to be to convince himself that he has various mental health disorders to get him out of doing anything. Nothing has ever been diagnosed (other than depression years ago).

When he doesn't have weed he is moody and can't sleep. He's now decided he needs to be tested for bipolar disorder. AIBU in thinking he's taking the puss and he's just a lazy drug addict? I'm so fed up of him minimising mental health disorders like this. Surely if he had bipolar disorder it would be noticeable?

Do I live in a parallel universe or something?

I've been assessed by the DWP's own "medical assessors" rather than my own GP for more than 10 years - long before ESA came in.

I think the threshold at which the DWP do a paper-only assessment based on GP and consultant reports has changed drastically (to the point that people in comas were being called for DWP assessments when ESA first came in). Which might be causing the confusion whereby some posters are claiming "GP's sign people off for evah and evah".

But actually the biggest change is that the DWP's own medical assessors used to be doctors, and IIUC made recommendations or decisions. Now the assessors are largely nurses and the actual decisions are made by non-medical DWP clerks.

I dont understand these threads sometimes.

People pile onto the OP calling her heartless, cold, uncaring etc because her brother might have genuine MH issues.

No one gets angry with the brother, who the OP knows better than we do, for faking mental illness and thus perpetuating the myth that anyone who is signed off with it must be a faking scrounger. Its people who make false claims that make life harder for those of you who have to jump through hoops to get what you deserve and are entitled to! Save your anger for him!

FYI there are people who will jump on any illness they can in order to avoid work and get benefits. MH issues are the new "back problems" in terms of claiming disability/sickness benefits, no one can prove you havent got it so they have to err on the side of caution and assume you have. And yes, there are some GPs who will sign sick notes with gay abandon, one at my practice is well known for it.

I know someone who does exactly what the OPs brother does, and no he isnt ill either, unless you count congenital laziness and an expectation of everything being handed over on a plate as an illness.

Just for clarification from some of the posts I have read - BPD=Borderline Personality Disorder. Bipolar disorder=bipolar disorder, normally bipolar 1 or bipolar 2 and there are other variations within bipolar. There has been some mix up in terminology on this thread.

You absolutely cannot self-diagnose bipolar and especially not then get signed off for it if you think you have it. And no GP would/should be diagnosing bipolar disorder. It will always be referred to a psychiatrist for diagnosis. If any GP is declaring people to be bipolar with no further assessment I would be lodging a formal complaint and switching doctors. The medication used to treat bipolar is very strong and needs regular monitoring. My gp wouldn't touch my medicine levels without sending me off to the psychiatrist first for them to do it instead.

It also takes a long time to get assessment. Bipolar is a horribly complex condition. Also as far as I am aware they will not make an assessment whilst anyone is under the influence of drugs or alcohol. There have been some heartbreaking threads on mn about that.

I'm on the fence with your post OP. Your brother may well be self medicating. I have just had to quit work yet again as it almost pushed me to the edge. He may be using minimising language to brush off something rather serious and not face working or deal with the reality of his problems. Every mental health condition manifests itself differently. It's all too easy to assume he's taking the piss.

Equally if your parents don't like it they could kick him out if they didn't think it was serious?

Or he could just be a lazy sod. We don't know your circumstances. I do know I am very difficult for DH sometimes but we muddle along and find a path through as he is very tolerant and understanding. The mn mental health boards are also rather good.

Oops forgot to add the mn mental health boards are rather good if you wanted more specific advice.

Fwiw it does annoy me how people think they have xyz mental health condition and then declare it without even going to a gp or looking for further help. It can make a mockery of what are really challenging chronic illnesses.

bogeyface they can prove whether you have a mh problem or not. Your post is really quite dismissive of the many of us who do live with it and the barriers we face in society as a result.

It is not something that charities such as Mind and Rethink make up when they say 1 in 4 of us will have a mental health condition at some point in our lives.

I'm not denying the reality of mental health problems LivingZuid but how can anyone prove whether someone else has a mental health problem or not? That unfortunately is why some people are less understanding of mental health problems.

living I have had serious MH issues myself including a full breakdown and PTSD which I still live with, believe me I am not dismissive.

MH issues can and are, faked by some people. Saying that it happens is not an insult to you or anyone else with MH issues. Like the "back problems" of yore, MH is personal and manifests in so many different ways that if a person was so minded they could spend a little time on the internet to be sure that they tick the right boxes for "depression" and off they go.

Why are you determined to believe that because you have a genuine illness then everyone else must have too? Its the fakers that make your life more difficult, its them you should be angry with, not me for pointing out that it happens.

There are strict assessment criteria for conditions such as bipolar and borderline personality disorder. It takes ages. I've also had a grilling in the past before diagnosis on depression before accessing cbt (which can be very dangerous for people with bipolar) and this was all NHS.

Although I do think the whole system is in crisis and it is all too often the case that overworked GPs just sign off for depression and some tablets and miss underlying problems and the odd bullshitter! The lack of funding and support for both patient and carers with mental health in the NHS is beyond a joke. Along with astronomically long waiting lists.

Sorry OP that was a bit of a hijack.

Well if you know someone well, it's perfectly easy to tell when the are showing signs of distress or an inappropriately elevated mood.

Also, there are obvious physical markers for eating disorders such as weight loss, swollen glands and scarred knuckles.

Not to mention self-harm which is pretty clear "proof" of mental illness.

And the barriers in society that you mentioned, they exist in part because of those who lie or exaggerate about mental illness, meaning you and I are tarred with the same brush as the liars.

bogeyface I am not sure where in my posts I ever said that just because I have a mental health condition that means all others do as well. I found your post (and still do) quite dismissive of those that do have it which is quite a different thing.

It could be ESA. You do send fit notes while waiting for your medical, and while that used to take a few weeks - I waited 8 months for mine. Some are waiting over a year.

So he may find he loses it once at medical stage.

You read it as dismissive? Why? How?

Why would I be dismissive of something that has changed my life in many ways and none of those ways was for the better?

The OP believes her brother is faking it, it can be done I have seen it myself. Why am I being dismissive of anyone with MHC by saying that the OP could well be correct and agreeing that it happens?

Ah, yes... The old "suck it up" cure for depression.

I am sure you learned that in medical school, right OP?

CallMe what are you talking about?!

callme

The OP is saying she doesnt think he has genuine depression, not that he does but should just "suck it up"!

Many people, me included, started self medicating with alcohol and drugs before getting a diagnosis of bipolar.
I am sick to death of threads painting those with invisible disabilities to be shirkers and scroungers.

You sound like a very nasty judgemental person

No she doesn't sound like a nasty judgmental person, just someone who knows her own brother.

I understand what she means as I am going through similar as well and no fucking way is she painting those with invisible disabilities to be shirkers and scroungers, and I say this as someone who has a husband who can't work due to bipolar and have had those judgments aimed at him left, right and centre.

Try reading the actual thread.

Expat that not strictly true some people have yet to be moved on to ESA if they have an existing income support claim due to sickness pre 2008.
So op brother could be on income support and taking sick notes from
GP.

I have read the thread you condescending woman

I think some of you are being very hard on the OP here. It is difficult to diagnose the validity of MH issues or accurately see what goes on in a family online and she clearly has concerns.

He may be mentally ill and be self-medicating, he may be a lazy sponger, who can say? As Quite said, support is only an option when he is ready to accept it.

I have great sympathy for those who feel their own MH issues are misunderstood or minimised but hitting out at anyone who questions somebody is just as bad. I know a person who has bragged openly about his manipulation of his benefit claim for MH issues, these people do exist and it is them who deserve your anger, not people like the OP who really just wants to know if or how to help her brother

Oh, well in that case you lack reading comprehension skills then.

Great post Scousadlic. The OP has done nothing wrong here, I had people in the past accuse me of being cold over my family member, the truth is that if they knew the whole story they would understand and I have been through hell and back myself with mental illness and my husband's bipolar so I know what it feels like to have people judge you for your illness.

It is awful, but this is not the OP's fault and this is not what she is doing.

It might have been more convincing if the bit about "He has freely admitted that he makes up stuff to the doctors. He just doesn't want the hassle of singin on normally" was in the first post.

If he has admitted to OP he is making it up then what's this about "Surely it gets to a point where anyone would start to be sceptical?"

He sounds like my ex - as soon as I stopped supporting him and moved out with my children he magically got a job and started looking after himself!