To think people are respected more if they are rich?

[TheFaultInOurStars]

Ive been in email correspondence with someone over a formal matter. I haven't met the person in RL. She gave me her address for posting something and I googled it to see where she lived. (Yes, I am nosy!)
It happened to be in a mahoosive house with a stunning garden in an affluent area which she paid three quarters of a million pounds for. She's also married to a doctor.

But now my perception of her has changed. In an instant. I suddenly thought shes more educated than me, she's more clever than me, shes better than me. I feel beneath her whereas before I didn't think anything of her really.

Am I right in thinking that people give you just that little bit more respect if you're rich, you're just that little bit more important?

People are tribal, the very rich stick together and don't see themselves as being extraordinary really or deserving of particular respect (if nothing new) and usually know someone who has vastly more wealth to make their own wealth ordinary by comparison. Also it often suits the v rich to be fairly vanilla and anonymous. I have been surprised in London & SE by just how rich some are. Even in a bracket where you have 5 million plus in the bank you'd likely not mix socially with the wealthier tier above etc, etc, you'd be comparative small fry with entirely different life experiences and social groups.

180k after tax not rich hahahaha

Sorry that's hilarious. We're 2/5 of that at most and I think we're really well off. Maybe I'm deluded.

I think what is interesting is that you can't judge how well off people are by their possessions. Some people have loads of debt, others a tiny mortgage.

I think it is true that you are treated differently by drs/ hvs etc depending on where you live though.

I have four uncles. All are "comfortably-off", one however is rich (self-made man, pulled himself up by bootstraps, now owns factory etc etc). He also lacks a university education. The other three are in solid middle-class professions- engineer, academics.

It is a constant source of amazement to me what a nicer human being my rich uncle is, compared to the other three. The rich uncle is generous, involved with family, a warm human being, behaved like a model son to his mom -providing best care in his home- until she died, and so on.

The other three- one of them is also quite generous in terms of giving, but in general, they are a bitchy, snarky, unpleasant. Constantly finding fault, getting involved in family rows. One of them was quite openly unfaithful to his wife for many years. I have a couple of memories of two of them openly brawling (not fisticuffs, just yelling) at family gatherings.

Anyway, the point being, there is absolutely no correlation between wealth and what kind of person you are. I think "society" respects all these people I just described more or less equally- they are all respectable, heterosexual, income-generating, well-established men with houses and families- three of them with grandchildren! But such a difference in character.

We are on a family income of less than a third of 180k and i consider us very well off and incredibly fortunate. We also benefited from subsidised rent for many years and were lucky with when we bought our house. We are also incredibly frugal and save about a third of our income every year. I find it shocking and a bit disgusting that anybody on 180k can say they aren't rich. So what if you are seeing your kids through uni, surely that is the point, can't you recognise that paying for your kids to avoid starting life in debt is exactly the kind of thing that wealth allows you to do? You can't somehow discount that income from your total! You might mean 'we don't have money to spend on a bottle of champagne with every meal and gold plate our taps', but that is a function of the sensible choices you are making about your spending, not your wealth. 180k a yr after tax is very rich, no two ways about it.

Sorry, I mean discount that spending from your total income. Must start using post preview!

. I've just received a weird begging message as a result of this thread

I've reported it.

It's all relative. I used, a long time ago, to work for someone who was really, properly rich (as in one of the richest self-made men on the planet) and, yes, the lifestyle for people with that sort of wealth is very different to what most people know and does confer a certain amount of awe/respect/access to power.

I don't agree with your perception that rich = intelligent and well educated.
I know LOTS of very intelligent and well educated people working in academia or the third sector or the arts and none have much money. They're not poor, but their salaries are around the national average which I think is about 25k.

Some people with bigger houses and better cars I know are property dealers or car salesmen. They have more money but often no post 18 education.

So yabu to think that people with nice houses are "better" or have aceived more in all ways.

Being rich is absolutely no guarantee of being interesting/fun/good company btw. I've met a lot of uber rich people and they are often very boring!

Absolutely, Bonsoir.

Yanbu.
I've experienced this first hand.
I often deal with paperwork/accounts/general 'stuff' for my FIL.
I can be refused whatever it is I'm asking for then FIL will take the phone or call later to speak about the same thing.
As soon as he gives his title '' It's Dr Carbe's FIL '' they bend over backwards for him.
Happens all of the time.

I work in a public facing role, often I know if they're rich or not and I try to treat people all the same.

I'm actually not terribly impressed by intelligence. I have a son with SN and he is one of the nicest people I know.
Intelligence is a generic quirk. People who strive, who try to be empathetic and generous, impress me more.

And frankly dull is in the eye of the beholder.

MyBaby1Day maybe you should stop giving presents to EVERYONE all the time and save the money towards your 'lifesaving' operation

Am I the only one a bit shocked by how you have stalked this woman, found out how much her house cost and posted about it on an internet discussion forum?

Anyway, I agree that there is no correlation between niceness and richness, and I treat people much the same, unless they are arrogant arses, which again doesn't correlate to richness or poorness. My uncle was made a fortune in finance and knew quite a lot of the London financial set (think Saatchi etc), and they were all ignorant bastards, which I think was more of a type of person being friends with the same type, as I also know financial sector types who are lovely. I know a couple of extremely shy and modest people who are very good at what they do and have made a few million by a young age, and they are very genuine.

So I wouldn't care how much the rich arrogant type earns, I wouldn't want to be friends with them. Just as I wouldn't want to be friends with the many poor arrogant types. (recalling a conversation with a man trying to chat me up a while ago: "Do you know how much I earn" me "No, not interested". Him: "But I can afford to buy you dinner, I earn loads" Me: "I can afford my own dinner. But go on then, how much?" Him: "£40,000 a year").

Just on her husbands occupation... I actually feel sorry for doctor's wives. I had two narrow escapes in that role & don't regret it. My first escape was to a medic who had to pay 1/3 of his salary in tax & work 6 days per week, leaving at 6am and struggling to be back for 7pm.

The 2nd was to a consultant who needed numerous late nights out to help encourage his team, never got more than 20mins for lunch, and was on call for the whole hospital 2 weekends each month. Making for such little time at marriage.

I'm sure she would be delighted to have more company of everyday women. It seemed my boyfriends hospital networks would judge me harshly just thinking I was going to bag a doctor. An honest friend would be delightful. What was she before the house & marriage? Somebody who likes what you are delivering. It's a nice start :)

They shouldn't but they do. It's not just wealth but your accent, class and intelligence which tends to help you get your way. I think it's appalling and I hope I am not like that. I was just saying to the children the other day it's how we, they, others treat people much worse off that matters (we'd just seen two teenage boys abuse a street sweeper who chased after them on the street - i don't know what they did, said something rude or chucked some rubbish but it was exactly how I hope none of my children ever are. It is how they treat the street sweeper that matters, not how they treat people who might be able to confer on them an advantage).

As for who is rich it's all relative. I know I earn more than most people but feel luckiest for being healthy and happy. I don't think I've ever met anyone I felt inferior to by the way but that might just be my own internal self confidence or self delusion or the values my parents gave me.

They certainly aren't more respected on MN, they are fair game for ridicule and insults.

In response to

Out of interest, what do people see as rich?

and

I am flabbergasted that someone with a post tax income of £180k considers themselves not to be rich!

Surely "rich" is more about net worth than income? I don't think a person with no assets and a 180K income from working is rich.

Let's saying being in the top 1% for income qualifies as rich, with the proviso that the income must entirely from investment income (rich means not having to work) and mustn't be particularly vulnerable to fluctuations in investment value. If you avoid American and Japanese stock-markets you can currently get a smoothed earnings yield above 6% and a dividend yield above 3% from equities. So let's say being rich means have income in the top 1% from the dividend yield alone. Using some 2008 stats from Wikipedia, an after tax income of £100,000 puts you in the top 1% for income, £150,000 before tax, divide by 3% gives £5 million minimum you need to have invested to be called rich.

(On second thoughts I'm not sure top 1% is exceptional enough to be labelled rich, so figure should probably be much higher.)

I think you are splitting hairs. A term for those in the less than 1% is one thing. Rich (in financial terms!) in my and i think most people's mind means having enough money to live very comfortably indeed if you so desire - pay a mortgage for a lovely house in a good area, buy food, clothes, car, holiday and luxuries from nice shops, put money aside and help set your children up in life without having to think too hard about it. 180k gives you that in spades!

Also, if only the top less than 1% are labeled rich, then what do you call those able to afford all those things I have mentioned, which are beyond the reach of the vast majority of the population?

I am flabbergasted that someone with a post tax income of £180k considers themselves not to be rich! Parallel university. We're on your husbands salary alone and I consider us to be rich and incredibly fortunate.

I said well off but not rich. Rich to me would be mansion living with a housekeeper- private travel etc. I dont dispute generally well off.

It is all relevant. You can live in a large house in some parts of the north for less than a flat in outer London. A million pound house may make you seem very well off in some parts and well below average in others.

I think what is unusual for us is that we both are high earners (rather than 1). I work about 70 hours a week and have done for past 16 years- so I guess that is one reason why i don't see myself as rich and if I stopped working I would have no income. I have friends who have large inheritances who could never work again we wont get any inheritances.

We also benefited from subsidised rent for many years and were lucky with when we bought our house. We are also incredibly frugal and save about a third of our income every year. I find it shocking and a bit disgusting that anybody on 180k can say they aren't rich.

And we didn't- very penny of our money has come from work- none from family, no rent subsidy, no lucky timing with house buying etc. You sound like you were lucky- well done. I am not sure how it is disgusting?

We live in a pretty expensive place. If we moved then we would earn a LOT less.

Swings and roundabouts. We are well off (usually). We are just not rich. I do think if my income was regular then we would feel more wealthy- self employment makes you feel very vulnerable.

Ah yes, the convenient myth of the self-made (wo)man. All down to hard work, luck had ab-so-lu-te-ly nothing to do with it. None at all of: going to uni in a time of low/no tuition fees, having parents who set you up with social/cultural capital, not suffering ill-health or caring responsibilities, not being in the right place at the right time ever, buying a house before runaway price inflation set in, or in a place which was lucky enough not to experience it in the first place? None of those? Nothing at all that makes you think that with a different throw of the dice, life might be very different?

But that is by the by. I think your definition of rich is not one that most people would recognise. If you define rich/wealthy by the top 0.5%, and well-off for what, the top 5%? Then what about the top 10/15%? Like i said, it is splitting hairs. All of those people are rich by the standards of the majority of the population. On an income of less than a third of yours, I am able to see that our financial position is one most people would give their eye teeth for. We have a nice house, a car, savings, and the ability to buy things we want without thinking too hard. We have choices in life. Luckily for us our wants are fairly modest. We will never go on a 5k holiday, and a housekeeper is another universe. But I see people having to budget to buy a new washing machine and I think 'yes, i feel rich.'

If you compare yourself to someone able to afford a private jet, you'll always feel dissatisfied. I used the word disgusting because I think you should be comparing yourself to those with less than you, many of whom work just as hard as you but on a fraction of the income. I think we need to acknowledge that the acquisition of wealth is never done in an abstract world in which only your native wit determines your life chances. I'm guessing, though, that you are on the right of the political spectrum whereas I am firmly on the left!

Doesn't They certainly aren't more respected on MN, they are fair game for ridicule and insults.

Yes, if you followed what some mumsnetters's view of the world on what the "rich" are like (and that seems to be anyone who earns over say 35k pa), they are a bit dim, useless, easily duped, and have only got to that position by means of inheritance/tax fiddle/lots of assistance.

And it goes without saying that those who are not rich are obviously far harder working, cleverer, never lazy and generally much more fulfilled and virtuous individuals.

If you believe that of course. There is actually a post further up this thread which does say that most rich people are only there because of tax fiddles or assistance. So, while DH and I are not rich, we have a valuable home, because we built it ourselves, while holding down quite well paid professional jobs. We spent every evening and weekend and holiday doing physical manual work and only paid for roofing and building work, so excuse me if I feel like clobbering someone who likes to pedal that line with a roofing joist or accro, when they suggest I've done some tax fiddle to get where I am!