NHS in a state

[Feellikescrooge]

My DF is in his mid 80's and my DM died in April and my DB died suddenly ( road traffic accident) in October. Two weeks ago he went to his GP feeling very unwell. She called an ambulance and sent him to hospital they sent him home late that night, the first I knew was a call from my DF in a taxi because he didn't have enough cash, I had only left him an hour before.

Next morning he attends his regular dialysis appointment and the staff there are so concerned they call for medical backup and he is transferred to A and E at the end of the session. Again he is sent home in the middle of the night without my sister or I being contacted.

The following day I call in at about 10 am and find him on the floor unable to get up, a man who a week before was walking 4 miles plus a day with his dog. Again he was admitted and this time he was kept in. Last Thursday he had a heart attack and was transferred to the CCU. Yesterday he was sent home, when I got there I said to the nurse he did not seem well enough and she shrugged and said that beds were being cleared for Christmas.

I insisted Dad stayed with me and heard him calling at 3am terribly poorly. He was blue lighted to hospital and is now in Intensive Care having been given the Last Rites. I know they are under pressure, my DH was a GP, but surely there is something dreadfully wrong if people as sick as my Dad are being continually sent home.

My DS broke his leg and had a cast up to the top of his thigh. The one wheelchair in the children's ward had a flat tyre. They told me it had been like it for weeks but the nurses weren't allowed to look at it for health and safety reasons. It had to be someone in maintenance. I went home at lunchtime, got a bike pump and pumped it up. There was no puncture. Job done. They were cross with me but also pleased it was fixed. Common sense has gone.

naty1 - I'm all for legislating people who choose certain lifestyles to pay for services or be denied services if they choose not to pay. There is no moral justification for offering services to people who choose to self-harm with their behaviour, at the obvious detriment of those who do not. You cannot treat an abuser of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes or food with the same level of care as a dying child or a struggling baby. In a financially compromised care system, you need to be allocating resources away from those who abuse themselves.

elephants it's clear I agree the NHS is failing as I said that upthread. But staff being in denial? I don't think any of us are as it's something we experience every day. It's something we've tried to fight against. It's the reason a lot of people are jumping ship. It's the reason people are having nervous breakdowns. It's the reason a lot of us cry when we get home.

It's clear you have disdain for staff in the NHS but please don't assume we don't know what's happening and that we haven't tried to do anything about it.

Take it out of the doctor's pay, and I bet the doctor would think twice about how much he is willing piss away just for the sake of it

Yet again you're blaming frontline staff and expecting them to pay for it. There is a system. It isn't set by the frontline staff. What would you like the GP to do in that situation? Please do tell. And why not forward your suggestions to a commissioner or board, see how far you get.

I think that people should be charged for seeing their GP. Nothing very much, but perhaps it may deter the moaners and common virus sufferers.

Issue fines to people who miss appointments and turn time wasters away from A&E.

Just sat down after a 12hr shift. No computer usage, except the handheld obs recorder (which I always point out to patients isn't my phone, to avoid any "nurses don't care, looking at phone" thoughts). I confess I did get my 2x30 minute breaks between 730am and 8pm. The rest of the time it's relentless. I genuinely can't imagine a place where staff can chat for over two hours.

Are you ever going to tell us your job elephantpoo?

Thefriar you are wrong about the scope of free prescriptions, cant remember if you said all elderly.
Plus thyroid/diabetes and other ongoing conditions. I assume t2 diabetes. Pregnancy and a yr after.
So its worth going in for say piles cream or the thrush cream even if you can pay.
I should think that includes cough meds etc
So the scope for wasting gp tine is huge. Until of course you get things on repeat. But then the repeat never , for me, used to last over 1mth until i specifically requested more. And must have saved gp time. They must be constantly signing prescriptions.
I assume unemployed etc get them free too.

handcream - Most people couldn't give a F because it doesn't hurt them in the pocket. That applies to both sides of the NHS interaction. Both the patient and the NHS are happily spending other peoples money, and neither give a F because it doesn't affect them.

Oh piggychops I have a senior charge nurse who, I swear, has a toolkit in his locker! He would never have waited for maintenance. Pfft!! Sometimes common sense goes out the window.

(I have been know to use a knife as a screwdriver to tighten a loose screw. (Couldn't find charge nurse to borrow a screwdriver ) health &safety star am i )

He probably would have bought the bicycle pump from you to stash in the toolkit ..... just in case!

Issue fines to people who miss appointments and turn time wasters away from A&E

This should happen IMO.

Funnily enough the NHS charge it's staff for missing occupational health appointments. They tried to charge me for an appointment I hadn't even scheduled

elephants a lot of people who abuse drugs alcohol or food do so because of a previous trauma.

Perhaps if Mental Health Services hadnt been cut to the bone it wouldnt be as bad.

But no ....still easier to blame it on the patient.

As someone who defends the NHS to the moon and back, I cannot defend this and would not even try to!
Complain and get answers!
Insist on it!

Handcream thing is it does cost the workers something - their time. I hardly saw my gp when working FT.
I can only assume its the elderly or not working/ longstanding issue people in there all the time.
So no chest infections etc ling time coughs. You get better in the end mostly with time. (Unless you already have asthma etc)
But the number of people in there looking like they have a bad cough is most of the waiting room.

I think most on this thread agree that the NHS needs to change and throwing endless pots of money at it isn't the answer.

Fwiw - I would stop the following - we just cannot afford it

Stop health tourism

EU residents not allowed to use the system for 2 yrs. if they really are as some claim young healthy people they will have little need of it

Put the drunks in a special holding area. Charge for their care. Everyone will claim they have no money....

Don't make prescriptions free for all, why should children not pay, why is there a view that the elderly shouldnt have to pay either.

Charge people for missed appointments

Stop treating the NHS as the Holy Grail. It's a free system that is abused again and again.

Make nursing a career with more student places. Bring in immediate English tests for all nurses. Not being able to speak perfect English is an accident waiting to happen.

Stop ivf treatments

Stop gastric band surgeries. We need to take responsibility for our size.

Yes, the NHS is tough on its staff. They need to turn that toughness onto some of the service users. Nicely of course

Yet again you're blaming frontline staff and expecting them to pay for it. There is a system. It isn't set by the frontline staff. What would you like the GP to do in that situation? Please do tell. And why not forward your suggestions to a commissioner or board, see how far you get.

Ah, the old, 'I was only following orders excuse.' How about telling the patient to fuck off and buy their own Ibuprofin? How about growing a backbone and a pair of bollocks and saying to the press, "It is wring that this particular health board is prescribing 16p Ibuprofin to retards at £10 a pack."

Your standard response to everything is, "the system is fucked but what can you do?" Admitting the system is fucked and you aren't doing anything but supporting it as a beginning. It's a mental leap that at least allows us to start looking for change. But denying it and pretending it isn't happening is just away of closing ranks around those you say, 'give the orders.'

They need to open specialised virally infected moaning centres where aflicted virus sufferers can all congregate and have a good moan. They could buy paracetamol and hot honey with lemon and keep away from their GPs

Whatever. You won't tell us what your interest is in the NHS elephantspoo, therefore I'll feel free to assume it's all from the Daily Mail or some other trash. If you were employed somewhere and watching the staff "gossiping", why not report it?

Children arent adults hiddenhome. Dont be so bloody ridiculous.

elephants your ignorance is astounding yet you carry on making your assumptions. You seem to think we just wring our hands, shrug and do fuck all. Just to break this down for you:

I've got a separate email account in which I've wrote to the media 9 times in the past year. One was put into a national paper. The others ignored.

I've wrote letters, I've started and signed petitions, I've requested meetings, I've reported incidents, I've gone to councils, I've supported strikes, I've met with unions, I've been to court for patients, I've changed jobs, I've been SUSPENDED for demanding change.

WE HAVE TRIED. There's absolutely fuck all we can do now except offer the best care we can do within the limitations we have been set, and keep on doing the above despite being ignored, shouted at, ridiculed and shot down at every effort.

You work there, you try and do it. You'll soon see what it's like.

Oh and retards? How dare you call anyone that.

Handcream agree with some of those but say eu we probably arent allowed. But i would extend that to maternity services.
Ivf they are hardly paying for anyway. 0-3 rounds to certain people.
I think elderly and children need free prescriptions. As they would have to pay the yrly charge which would be a lot from a pension.
I think cutting cb to 2/3 kids could cut birth rate hence pressure on maternity services.

Better use of existing resouces, errors cost money, patient time

elephantspoo you seem to have quite a lot to say about the nhs but so far not really on how to change it.

Perhaps you could share some constructive proposals that you must have?

Also it's not clear why you witnessed staff sitting talking for over 2 hours. However, did you at any point challenge them? If I sit my but down for any longer than 5 min (outside visiting ) some one will find me a job to do. (Even though I'm pregnant and actually do need to rest for a few minutes every so often.)

Naty - it is the elderly. They have time on their hands to worry about their health - to get every little thing checked out, go to the GP, it will save you having to spend £3 on that cough mixture.

And the worst thing about this is that I will be one of them in the future!!

Just because you are elderly or have children doesn't mean you shouldn't have to pay.

elephants a lot of people who abuse drugs alcohol or food do so because of a previous trauma.

Funny how the answer to everything is always spend more money. It's so easy for everyone to spend someone else's money. Why not make people responsible for their own parents and children's health and welfare?

Let's face it, if young Jimmy is a crack addict and his dad is an alcoholic, and none of the rest of the family, and none of the neighbours, or the community at large give a F about them, you have two choices. Either give them the bare essentials and leave them to it, assuming the community at large have assessed their value to the community accurately, of treat them with the same value and care, and, unless you get more money from the magic pot of money in the socialist play book, compromise the health and care of a child or a newborn baby.