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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

NHS in a state

204 replies

Feellikescrooge · 23/12/2014 17:06

My DF is in his mid 80's and my DM died in April and my DB died suddenly ( road traffic accident) in October. Two weeks ago he went to his GP feeling very unwell. She called an ambulance and sent him to hospital they sent him home late that night, the first I knew was a call from my DF in a taxi because he didn't have enough cash, I had only left him an hour before.

Next morning he attends his regular dialysis appointment and the staff there are so concerned they call for medical backup and he is transferred to A and E at the end of the session. Again he is sent home in the middle of the night without my sister or I being contacted.

The following day I call in at about 10 am and find him on the floor unable to get up, a man who a week before was walking 4 miles plus a day with his dog. Again he was admitted and this time he was kept in. Last Thursday he had a heart attack and was transferred to the CCU. Yesterday he was sent home, when I got there I said to the nurse he did not seem well enough and she shrugged and said that beds were being cleared for Christmas.

I insisted Dad stayed with me and heard him calling at 3am terribly poorly. He was blue lighted to hospital and is now in Intensive Care having been given the Last Rites. I know they are under pressure, my DH was a GP, but surely there is something dreadfully wrong if people as sick as my Dad are being continually sent home.

OP posts:

ILovePud · 23/12/2014 21:49

elephantspoo the problem highlighted by the light-bulb issue is the exorbitant PFI contacts that many trusts are tied into, these were not negotiated by clinicians. You're just spoiling for a fight by saying that no NHS staff give a fuck about how the money is spent.

handcream · 23/12/2014 21:51

I have to say all those nurses saying they don't get a break or listing out all the things they do, I didn't see much of this at all in the 2 weeks I was there with DM. Lots of chatting in another language, lots of gossiping about the other patients or complaining about them. DM had the bed next to the nurses station and you could hear most things they were saying. Although there was a Matron on the ward I only saw her once in two weeks.

elephantspoo · 23/12/2014 21:51

Oh, and by the way both myself and my husband (NHS consultant) take home less for the same job now than we did a few years ago, due to pension changes and no pay rise. With respect elephantspoo, your opinions bear a striking similarity to your username.

So you've had no pay rise and a loss of the gilt edged pension bias public sector workers had accumulated over the past few decades, and you feel somewhat aggrieved that you now have to suffer the same stagnation and pension privileges as the rest of society. I sense you still believe you are entitled to more than the rest of society because you live off the public purse.

Your pay is only going to diminish in the future. The country does not have the money to pay for the NHS in its current form. It has no way of supporting all those who live off of taxation. If you're under 45 I'd seriously consider a Plan B in case your government pension does not materialise. The government does not have the money currently, and it's debt is going parabolic.

I may be wrong about where the NHS is headed, but we can all see it is failing, and it isn't my future or my old age that is pegged to whether or not the Government can meet these obligations.

handcream · 23/12/2014 21:54

Went to make an appointment today and went into the GP surgery personally. The receptionist sighed before I had even said first or second week in Jan was fine. I suspect she was tired of people coming in demanding their right to an appointment asap.

Mrsstarlord · 23/12/2014 21:55

i really don't know where you get your information from elephantspoo.

The NHS budget is controlled by NHS staff? You think that anyone except the higher eschelons determines which suppliers are used or how resources are used? You are completely wrong.

You think that staff who have dedicated their career to caring for people are happy to watch care get cut further and further back so that they can't look after people the way they want to? Or that they are happy to be set off on tasks which are a waste of time rather than deliver the interventions that are needed in order to tick some pen pushers boxes? Or that they just do what they are told without raising concerns? Or that when they do raise concerns managers say 'thanks that's really helpful we will do something about that'? People who raise concerns continue to be treated appallingly and can and have been pushed out, leaving them, their family and sometimes patients vulnerable.

GraysAnalogy · 23/12/2014 21:55

It's a mess. I see it nearly every day and its a complete and utter mess and sometimes I come home, sit down and cry because it upsets me so much.

I'm constantly reading about bad care and it horrifies and saddens me. I'm so sorry about your dad. On the other side im seeing colleagues having nervous breakdowns.

It's rotten now. There are people struggling to hold it up, trying to fight but it isn't working.

ILovePud · 23/12/2014 21:55

elephantspoo have you ever considered sharing your views on the Daily Mail comments section? I think that's your natural home.

elephantspoo · 23/12/2014 22:00

elephantspoo the problem highlighted by the light-bulb issue is the exorbitant PFI contacts that many trusts are tied into, these were not negotiated by clinicians. You're just spoiling for a fight by saying that no NHS staff give a fuck about how the money is spent.

I sat in my local hospital sonography dept. today and watched seven staff members congregate around a desk, doing fuck all, for 2 hours and 15 minutes. Admittedly one was on the phone to technical with a problem with e-mail, but the remaining six were being paid to do fuck all and couldn't give a shit.

Yes, that could have been a one off, but I doubt it.
Yes, they could all have been on their dinner break at the same time and chosen to lunch with no for in sonography, but I doubt it.
Yes, they could all have been off duty, and decided to come in for a surprise. Christmas get together, but I doubt it.

This is common behaviour, and I would venture many people see this sort of behaviour by 'hard working staff' every day of the week.

In regard to PFI contracts, that's as may be, but that does not explain the issue in non-PFI hospitals, and I did not say NHS clinicians, I said NHS staff.

Sirzy · 23/12/2014 22:00

I don't think I have ever seen a nurse sat at a computer (other than in triage entering patient data) in all the trips to hospital ds has had. The vast majority of NHS professionals are doing everything they can to help patients in an already overstretched system. Yes mistakes happen and it's awful when they do but a hell of a lot of good is also done

shouldnthavesaid · 23/12/2014 22:00

Well being quite honest I don't think I could do this job if I didn't feel that I was putting 110% into everything I do.

I am not saying that there aren't issues with nursing care but the vast majority of us work very, very hard and we do it out of caring for people, not for any other reason.

handcream · 23/12/2014 22:00

I have a final salary pension scheme and work for a private company. My DH pays double into his pension scheme and we will end up with the same pension. It shows just how good final salary pensions are....

The gold plated pensions of the past aren't sustainable. My pension has been dabbled with and I now have a career average which tbh is much fairer.

HelenaDove · 23/12/2014 22:03

The Friar i totally agree. I would also like to add the fact that they have no idea whether family members could get time off work with no notice to care for an ill relative. Especially if they work in something like retail At this time of year. Yeah course the manager of Argos/Tesco/Sainsburys will give you this time off with no notice at Christmas when your relative was dropped off at your house at 3 am 5 and a half hours before you were due in.

I once saw another NHS worker who posts on here say "ive nothing against carers." Attitude soon changes when its discharge time.

Not all nurses/medical professionals are like this. I met some brilliant ones when DH was ill. But unfortunately ive seen the scathing attitudes towards families and family carers on these boards quite a lot!

handcream · 23/12/2014 22:03

Also the hospital I was at had about 80% nurses from abroad and on an agency basis. They really really didn't care.

hiddenhome · 23/12/2014 22:03

I wonder what will happen in the end? What conversations will we be having about healthcare in 10, 20, 30 years time.

Most people sure as hell can't afford private healthcare.

GraysAnalogy · 23/12/2014 22:03

Elephants I'm sorry and I'm going to be quite rude here, but you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

And as for nurses pay - the deserve a damn sight more than they get and they should not have to answer for the failings of the NHS. You do realise they - and other frontline staff - are just as much victims of the failing system as anyone else. They have absolutely no input into budgets and all that malarkey so I have no idea what rubbish you've been reading. Their wages are ridiculous for what they do. For what they have to know, for the sheer responsibility they carry. The amount of times I've had to give nurses antibiotics for kidney infections stemming from being unable to use the toilet or have access to drinks during the day... it's horrible to think about.

frumpet · 23/12/2014 22:04

elephantspoo , all the people working in the NHS are contributing from their pay towards their pension , it isn't free . They are also paying tax and NI on their wages like the rest of the 'public' , so are not taking from that purse but contributing to it .

GraysAnalogy · 23/12/2014 22:06

And as for gold plated pensions, ha. Well you might be happy to know these so called golden pensions are changing soon and will be a shadow of what they once was.

frumpet · 23/12/2014 22:08

elephantspoo care to share with us which area it is you work in ?

handcream · 23/12/2014 22:09

I actually think we need to focus more on health as opposed to the latest iPhone, went to the X factor a few weeks ago and it tends to attract the young. Without fail they were on their iPhones...

The NHS won't be free in the future and even if it is most won't want to use it. I know a number of people who pay for private health insurance (including me).

I am also wondering how many people actually have it - does anyone know?

elephantspoo · 23/12/2014 22:09

The NHS budget is controlled by NHS staff? You think that anyone except the higher eschelons determines which suppliers are used or how resources are used? You are completely wrong.

I didn't say that. NHS management are NHS staff. I was discussing waste just last week with the head of midwifery at my local hospital. I'm well aware that a nurse 'only follows orders', but that is the flaw in the system. The system completely removes all personal responsibility from the person following the orders, and the person following orders consequently has no care or understanding of the volume of money he/she is going through, disposing of, or pissing away.

The whole system is fucked, and it cannot be fixed by with the old middle class socialist mantra of, "we need to pump more money into it." Giving it more money will only make the situation worse, it's like saying, "It's fucked. I know, let's pay them to make it even worse."

elephantspoo · 23/12/2014 22:11

I don't think I have ever seen a nurse sat at a computer

Wow! Now that's a confession.

GraysAnalogy · 23/12/2014 22:11

handcream I haven't got private healthcare but I have been looking into it. I'm planning on getting pregnant soon too and I'll be going private for that - if money allows. I've seen far too many times stretched services and if I can afford to not have to suffer it then I'll go private.

handcream · 23/12/2014 22:12

Of course they are paying for their pension! Surely they don't expect it to be free!!

What I was trying to say is that I pay 50% of what my DH pays yet we will end up with the same amount. In fact mine is almost risk free because it's not linked to the stock market

GraysAnalogy · 23/12/2014 22:13

The one thing I agree about with pissing away money elephantspoo is medications. We must waste hundreds of thousands of pounds on wasted medications. It's a big bug bear and something a few of us have discussed but nothing ever gets done.

handcream · 23/12/2014 22:14

Gary's - please look very carefully, pregnancy is rarely covered. I have a company scheme and its generous, it didn't cover pregnancy

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