To think that some women have an awful time on the postnatal ward

[elliejjtiny]

This isn't a slag off the midwives thread. In my case the midwives were perfectly lovely and kind, just very overworked.

My 2 experiences on the postnatal ward with DS4 (now 18m) and DS5 (now 6m) were horrible. I had caesareans both times and both babies were in NICU, although DS5 came and joined me on the ward for the last 3 days. Once my catheter was out I had to make my own breakfast, fetch other meals and drinks from the ward kitchen, take expressed milk down what felt like endless corridors to NICU every 4 hours and sterilize all the bottles, pump bits etc. I didn't have DH with me as he was looking after the DC's or any visitors who stayed more than 5 minutes. I could have really done with some tlc in my vulnerable and hormonal state. And some decent painkillers. I wasn't allowed morphine after the catheter came out because it made me wobbly, just paracetamol and ibubrofen. I take more than that for period pains.

But when I talk about it I get told that it didn't happen or that I'm being negative or exaggerating. It makes me feel like I'm going mad. So come and tell me your awful postnatal ward stories so that I know I'm not alone.

Is this simply down to budgets? Or do you think better management would deliver better results?

Sadly you can't change a thing simply by throwing more money at it. The NHS already spends more money each year than ALL money raised in National Insurance in the country. That's right, all the money we are meant to be contributing towards pensions and supporting the elderly and the unemployed is being spent by the NHS.

Yet they managed to overshoot their budget by 13 billion last year, 7 billion more than all NI contributions from everywhere.

It may be better if we ceased paying income support and pensions to those who were unwilling to work, or ceased paying for people with self inflicted injuries from having access to the NHS. But clearly the classic solution of, 'we'll just magic up money from the magic money tree' isn't going to work with this black hole.

You we have all had the experience of going into sonography or wherever, and seeing signs saying, 'we apologise for delays... Understaffed' yet there are seven staff standing around the desk for half an hour talking, chatting, and generally doing FA but wasting money for the sake of an easy life.

MW seem to be extremely over worked, but they do seem to be the only ones in hospital who do much in my experience.

If I was allowed to not pay NI and go private I would, and if people could go private, the cost of doing so would drop dramatically as more more mothers left the. NHS. People would also likely look after their health more, because it would be coming out of their own pockets.

Third degree tear here. Kept forgetting to give me paracetamol so I took my own. Then got told off when midwife spotted it. Struggling to breast feed for which I did get a fair amount of help, to be fair, but i remeber really struggle to get back on the bed whilst holding him. I asked the midwife to hold him and she refused, saying you will have to do it on your own at home. Uhm sorry no I won't - I had my husband at home. What a ridiculous attitude that is. What is so wrong with caring someone when they are on a ward!!! The breakfast thing is ridiculous too - it is not to help you gain independence it is to save money!

Reading this makes me wonder whether we should get mumsnet to liase in some way with obstetric services to put these stories to them.
I was a nurse (psychiatric) and left because I never got much time with patients as we are so pushed for time.
So I do understand the staffing is often frustrating and limiting.
However. As births become more medicalised and c sections or other interventions are frequent thus leaving women recovering from procedures, we are moving towards shorter stays in hospital and minimal intervention or help with babies.
My first baby was an uncomplicated natural birth and I stayed in for 5 days, had support with my breastfeeding and was sent home healed and rested.thst was 30 yrs ago.
My most recent baby is now 3 and I had a section and could have gone home the next day.
We seem to have been so busy trying to make stays in hospital minimal that we have forgotten the many women who are recovering from surgical procedures.

The annoying thing is I can afford private postnatal care but where I live it isn't available. The nhs is just a barrier to good care as far as I am concerned. And I work for the nhs - in maternity services ( not a midwife). Can't wait or it to be privatised - then I might end up with fairer pay and patients might end up with better care.

Twenty years ago yesterday i gave birth to ds1 who lived for two hours. After saying goodbye to him for the last time i went back to the maternity ward and was put in a room (admittedly on my own) in the middle of the ward and that night I had to listen to women giving birth and babies crying until i was discharged the next morning! It was awful. My friend had a similar expeience a few years later and by that time they had got a room nearer the end of the ard and away from the crying!

Post natal wards are horrendous.

l lost 2 litres of blood and didn't have a wink of sleep for 48 hours, after blood transfusions I was still reeling with exhaustion and anaemia, the room was spinning.

Yet I was expected to walk the floor rocking a screaming baby. I'd buzz them and say I've fed him but he won't settle can you help me. They just looked at me insulted that I'd asked. The usual reply was feed him again and them walking back out. Turned out after weeks of struggling ds1 had tongue tie, not that anyone in that ward gave a shit.

ledkr we have raised this issue with MN a number of times, whether they would be willing to do a campaign on postnatal care. They are not interested. It makes me quite angry as I think it affects a huge number of women and it will only get better with outside intervention.

Yes, more money and staffing would help probably, but I don't think women should be treated like rubbish in the meantime. These days, most people work in places that are understaffed and are insanely busy, we're not all allowed to talk to people like crap and neglect them.

Thankfully I wasn't really affected by the joys of our postnatal ward, with dd1 I spent one night and then got transferred to our local midwife led unit, which is where she was supposed to be born if everything had gone as planned.

With dd2, again just the one night.

Can remember with dd1 on the postnatal ward the lady opposite. She had a CS and her friend was helping her out and went to get her a drink. Her friend was shouted at for helping as the new mum should be up and about. The midwife then cranked up the back of her bed to try to get her up in a position to get out of bed and this poor woman just let out a scream of pain.

It's a shame the postnatal ward is like that, the midwives on the delivery ward were so lovely and it is such a shock to the system to hit the uncaring attitude on postnatal when you are feeling dazed, in pain and your partner has been sent home. My first night with dd1 I felt very alone and scared.

My experience led to pals suggesting I contacted a lawyer. I found Id ticked legal on my house insurance so I called them. The lawyer came to my house.

She told me she was in a team of people dealing with awful things that had happened to women in hospitals giving birth and their appalling experince in the ward after. She said the stitching experiences alone kept 2 lawyers very busy.

I took it as far as I could and the registrar was suspended ( on full pay of course) and my ds has until he is 21 to bring legal proceedings as an adult.

If I had my time again I would complain, I am still shocked that this level of care is allowed.

If the scenario I (and many others) went through was caught on one of these undercover report type programmes, I'm sure there'd be outrage.

I thought that the care was really awful after the birth of my first child. I hadn't slept for 48 hours by the time I gave birth and was deranged with fatigue but they wouldn't help with anything and then said that I couldn't go home until my baby was feeding properly. I was in hospital for five days which was a nightmare. I should have told them on no uncertain terms that I needed to be at home where DH and my mother would help with feeding and sleeping. I'm normally assertive but sleep deprivation, hormones and pain make people very vulnerable and unable to stand up for themselves.

The care I received on the post natal ward ranged from superb to downright abusive. The staff were stretched and very busy but , again, there was no excuse for the attitude and manner of some staff.

One midwife made it clear she thought I was unreasonable for wanting the pain medication that I was written up for. She told me I should be weaning myself off it as it was very strong - no shit love, I was in agony following EMCS after 60 hours of induction - in fact she deliberately ignored my request for pain relief twice. The cleaner who witnessed this was furious, found another the ward manager/ sister and I could here her shouting "that lassie has been waiting for 40mins in pain, it's no right".

I was also bullied by a member of staff when I objected to her taking my baby away without having shown me her id and introducing myself. We had a row, she lied and told me I was delusional - the girl in the bed next to me who was in for monitoring stuck up for me and backed up my version of events.

To top it all off the midwife on my last day deliberately used us to bed block - we had been cleared to go the night before and my paperwork had already been done by a lovely midwife who didn't want me to have to hang around. It was 6pm before we were able I left and the midwife deliberately ignored us, the buzzer, refused to admit the paper work had been done and was the most obtuse, slow and obstructive person I encountered.

If they arent bothered about getting people pain relief in labour then its not that much of a surprise they arent concerned about pain afterwards.
Mentally packing maternity bag with lots of food and codeine.
Despite the meals i was starving, not having eaten 36hrs and then bf.
If mw cant or wont help partners visiting hrs should be waived (even mums etc) certainly until the woman can get up and get the baby, safely put back down.
Its a bit crazy we are exhausted from labour and men get to go home to a nice sleep while - i bf all night.
I wonder too if there is a lack of sympathy about women 'choosing' a CS and an epidural so causing their own pain - if youd listened to mw it would have magically popped out. Erm no.

The disbelief that it can hurt as much as it does.

Lack of staff is not a good enough excuse to be rude, especially when you are in a job that deals with women at their most scared or vulnerable. It doesn't cost a person anything to smile, talk in a caring way Andre respectful.

I had great experiences both times, midwives who cared, yes I didn't see them much but when I did they were warm and friendly, no rudeness or undermining. I remember after ds was born listening to a midwife in with the girl in the next cubicle who was struggling to breastfeed, she stayed wither for nearly 2 hours, told her she would come back the next day. Her tone and demeanor was so caring, encouraging and supportive.
She came and helped me the next day too, I'll never forget her.

I had two horrible experiences. Both times every time anyone pushed their buzzer at night no-one turned up for ages then a mw would appear saying "Don't push the buzzer unless it's an emergency".

WTactualF!? Do they not understand that newborns don't know the fecking difference between night and day and women might just need support with breastfeeding, etc at night as well as during the day.

I had two Csections. In my second stay there was a time when i pushed the buzzer and no-one came. For ages. I pushed it again. No-one came. I managed to crawl out of bed and stagger out into the corridor holding my screaming baby. I found ALL the midwives huddled round the desk having a right old giggle about something. I said I needed the toilet and needed someone to take my baby. The response "Why didn't you just leave her in her cot?"

I screamed/cried "BECAUSE THERE'S A FUCKING SIGN ON THE WALL TELLING ME NOT TO LEAVE MY BABY AND TO GET A MIDWIFE"

Then some bright spark asked my why I hadn't emptied my bag of wee "BECAUSE NO-ONE TOLD ME TO, I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU WERE MONITORING IT"

I was in bits crying, I just wanted a bit of help. I know it's good to get up and about but twisting in and out of bed holding a 10lb baby less than a day after major abdominal surgery surely can't be the best thing.

I left the second time after one night - I could not abide being in there a second longer. Still makes me upset thinking or talking about it.

I'm a nurse and regularly deal with short staffing situations, but always manage never to be rude, dismissive, callous and bullying.

The attitude to pain relief was ridiculous. The midwife made me feel like a drug seeking waste of time. In fact, due to my blood loss I was getting less pain relief than other women as I couldn't take ibuprofen. She had the audacity to tell me I wasn't in pain, it was "just" sleep deprivation.

I had a similar experience with dd when I had a c section. Of course for the first night you are unable to move. Once dh had gone home I had real trouble comforting her. She ended up sleeping in my arms which I was worried about so I stayed awake. If they are so stretched they should allow family members in for longer including overnight. The second day they asked my dh to leave because it was "quiet time" which was a ridiculous idea from my point of view because dd was constantly crying and he was helping me with her. Both of us and my dps found the attitude of the staff cold and rude. I'm not a moany type either. It was my third c section and I was used to it the pain and discomfort. It was more the attitude towards letting family come in and help. I left on the morning of the third day and I was so relieved.

pullthe cracker and elephants thank-you for your replies....

Just wanted to say that threads like these must make depressing reading for anybody working as a midwife. Am very aware that anybody choosing to train as a midwife does so with the best of intentions, really do not want to be leading a "bashing" here, but threads like these also clearly highlight a desperate and urgent need for some sort of change at the top of the tree.

And I agree about budgets and it not being a case of just throwing money at the problem. Personally I could have lived without a sensory suite eith mood lighting and settled for some adequate pain relief and maybe a cup of tea when I really needed one!

DS was in SCBU but DW was put in ward with other mums with their baby's so was bit heart wrenching as she didn't. Midwife and assistant were great but a random midwife/nurse was bit crap giving shortshrift to DW trying to get DS to latch on at first, the whole emotional rollerocaster of birth and then someone is instructing you as if your a silly child.

I really can't find anything positive to describe my experience and it really did lead me towards the dark path of PND.

Me too, AmazonGrace. Without a doubt.

I'm now expecting my second (took a long time to even consider it) and the only thing that terrifies me is being on the postnatal ward again. And I'll be having a CS so no hope of a six hour discharge.

It will be a different hospital but I know it will be the same.

I feel sort of prepared though. I know I will feel neglected, and I won't sleep at all. I will make sure I have DH or visitors with me for as long as they're allowed, to do the things that staff can't, or won't. I will almost certainly formula feed, because I know me and my unlatchable, flat nipples present too much of a challenge to midwives (and certainly too much of a challenge for me). Then I'll hobble out as soon as I physically can.

Driving, it's so good that you're now prepared. I really hope you have a totally different experience this time

I think the hardest part was the absolute shock of facing this life changing moment with no support or empathy towards how you'd possibly be feeling, from the people who, before this moment, had been fantastic. The midwives at the GP's surgery and the two who helped deliver DS were fantastic. It was almost as if you didn't then matter, it was a case of get on with it and stop moaning.

Any other time you face such a big ordeal in hospital you're nutured, you're looked after.

When I watched the footage of that poor woman with her baby, I felt so emotional for her. Obviously I don't know all of the details of her stay at the hospital but for someone who was extremely vulnerable throughout her pregnancy to then face what many of us endured, well, it speaks for itself. I had a happy, problem free pregnancy and my ordeal in the PN Ward certainly contributed towards me feeling very low indeed.

I wish I had known what to expect, I think I could have then prepared myself.

I only had 20 hours on the hellish post-natal ward in 2007 so not as bad as some but the lowlights were-

Being in so much pain after birth (episiotomy and tons of bruising) and being looked at like I was crackers for asking for pain relief. She gave me 2 paracetamol in the end.

Being told off for buzzing because DD1's nappy needed changing (I had nappies and cotton wool but no bowl for the water). Midwife snapped at me that there were things in the cupboard under the cot. If someone had told me that to start with then I wouldn't have needed to buzz.

Same bitch midwife told off a mum next to me for buzzing as her baby was sick. 'He's a baby, babies are sick,' she said sarcastically. Actually the poor mite was projectile vomiting all over the place, not just possetting, and next day he was whisked off by someone as he was jaundiced and poorly.

I was roughly manhandled by several midwives who were trying to get DD1 to breastfeed.

DD1 couldn't breastfeed and I couldn't take being in there any more so I formula fed her, to which I got the lovely warning 'you'll really regret this when your milk comes in.' I wasn't choosing not to BF, I wanted to but DD1 could not latch on. This led to massive feelings of guilt and I got PND.

The only good thing was one midwife who was respectful and caring, she didn't grab my breast and shove DD1 at it. Also she took DD1 for a couple of hours so that I could rest.

DD2 was born in a MLU and the postnatal care there was (for me) a massive improvement. I delivered DD2 5 mins after shift change, so had the same midwife for 12 hours. She encouraged me to try BF but after a while could tell it wasn't going to work- she was actually positive about formula feeding, provided bottles for us and was so kind and reassuring. I'll never forget her she made such a difference to me. She brought me food and drinks, encouraged me to hurry up and think of a name and kept checking on us. I was in a room on my own which was blissful and DH was able to stay overnight with us. Completely different experience.

It was a horrible experience - so horrible that we had two HB for next DC in bid to avoid post natal wards and it was only overnight - though I had few stiches and episiotomy.

I thought it had been a busy time for them but DH said it was only the four of us in the entire ward - he walked it.

I've never felt so worried, sore and vulnerable and never been treated so appallingly. The staff were uncaring and extremely cold and callous to all of us.

I felt really sorry for the woman with one twin in SUCBA- she still hadn't seen him by time we left and she was there before me- her DP was having to kick up a huge fuss.

They gave appalling bf advice - just wrong and wouldn't allow me to take the over counter pain relief my community MW had wanted me to take or prescribe anything. So was in unnecessary pain -well that what my community MW said later.

The inefficiency was also staggering - we waited all morning for them to get their act together to discharge us out of there - in end we walked out and no one stopped us or challenged us - we could have been anyone.