To think that some women have an awful time on the postnatal ward

[elliejjtiny]

This isn't a slag off the midwives thread. In my case the midwives were perfectly lovely and kind, just very overworked.

My 2 experiences on the postnatal ward with DS4 (now 18m) and DS5 (now 6m) were horrible. I had caesareans both times and both babies were in NICU, although DS5 came and joined me on the ward for the last 3 days. Once my catheter was out I had to make my own breakfast, fetch other meals and drinks from the ward kitchen, take expressed milk down what felt like endless corridors to NICU every 4 hours and sterilize all the bottles, pump bits etc. I didn't have DH with me as he was looking after the DC's or any visitors who stayed more than 5 minutes. I could have really done with some tlc in my vulnerable and hormonal state. And some decent painkillers. I wasn't allowed morphine after the catheter came out because it made me wobbly, just paracetamol and ibubrofen. I take more than that for period pains.

But when I talk about it I get told that it didn't happen or that I'm being negative or exaggerating. It makes me feel like I'm going mad. So come and tell me your awful postnatal ward stories so that I know I'm not alone.

and yes, I was at St Thomas too

lovely views though, shame about the staff

I should say I've been there a few other times for other things, for myself and DH, and all the other departments I've been to were pretty good

I do think nursing care in general has deteriorated.
I had my ovarys removed in jan as a day case.
I was in untill the evening then told I could leave and given an advice leaflet and told to call if I had the symptoms listed.
I told them I had all of those akready.
Nausea, pain, heavy bleeding and feeling faint.
I stood up to leave and nearly passed out.
They told dh to get a wheelchair and he pushed me out into a full on storm in the carpark at 8 o clock at night, apologising all the time.
I vomited into a bowl all the way home, mum was with the kids and nearjy cried when she saw me.
I was bleeding so much I called the ward and was told to call back if it got worse
So is it just nursing in general?

'So is it just nursing in general?'

I don't know, but some of the nurses I've worked with over the years, I wouldn't leave in charge of a hamster. They don't appear to be very well educated people in spite of their 'bits of paper'.

Elephant i completely disagree.
If DPs were there there would be no opportunity for theft whilst in loo/ shower or of baby. And maybe it would have helped the poor woman in bristol. As mw didnt notice jer leaving but partner probably would have.
I think some women might not like being surrounded by strange men though
I think 1 ward where they can stay until you can walk etc or first night as its quite true you could pass out through blood loss after arriving late at night

DH was great when he was there, but mostly he wasn't there. And it was impossible for him to help me when he had our older DC in tow. The midwives kept asking where he was and why he wasn't there, helping me. I'm sure they meant well but it just made me feel rubbish and more alone.

Post natal ward staff must be pretty thick if they can't figure out that a post op woman needs extra care and painkillers

Are we regressing as a species?

I think it is somewhat in general. The more contact you have with nhs the more issues you will observe to antenatal 30min appts with mw if you are uncomplicated- great.
But when you go in hospital and spend days there so much time much more likely to have errors/issues.
Its strange the attitude to CS as some will be breech or twins. Possibly they want people to feel the pain they missed.
I mean if we all decided on ELCS because of refusal of pain relief in labour, where would mw be then as everyone is saying nurses could do aftercare. They need to be nice to keep their jobs.

I am both amazed and kinda grateful that so many people are sharing their bad experiences of pn at St Thomas. I thought I must have got seriously unlucky to have had such a bad time in such a highly rated hospital but I really did. left alone with no bfeeding support, baby crying unless I held him. No sleep for 40 hours post delivery, being told "there's no one way to settle a baby" when I asked for help to get him down. feeling like I'd failed at motherhood in the first few days. Having the baby swaddled in a wet vest only for him to wake up ten minutes later (they'd sent my mum home saying he was settled) Some complete Angel taking him for a few hours so I could sleep even though she wasn't meant to. Without her I would have had a disaster....I was about to fall asleep standing up with him.

For dc2 I sobbed and begged not to go onto pn so they let me and dh stay in the birth Centre for a day and dd slept on the boob next to me on the sofa bed. So much better. I didn't even get the post baby crash with dd because we'd had such a calm start

To add to my earlier post re St thomas's. It took me many months to emotionally make a formal complaint and to revisit such a terrifying awful experience. I detailed a catalogue of issues ranging from an aggressive, obstructive, hostile and dysfunctional culture but more importantly arrogance that was professionally negligent at St Thomas's pn ward. It was a pointless exercise and they ignored all the important points but said they have taken my minor points on board to fix some of the smaller issues. Ie locked out of ward, not fed. Not cleAned. Not given Heprin. None of that mattered Compared to the health of my child. What should have been the happiest time of my life was destroyed and the fear of nurse responsible complications wih my child haunted me for months. Even now 2 years later I deal with the emotional fallout. St thomas pn ward is a dantes hell. There is a totally screwed culture within that department I haven't seen elsewhere in the hospital which I attend for other reasons and the care has been fine. Sorething in the PN ward is fundamentally rotten

I wonder when nurses say it's all about budgets and resources. It is no more time consuming to speak to someone kindly than rudely and aggressively. In many cases it is about attitude. My two post natal hospital experiences have, I'm afraid, coloured my opinion of the whole nursing profession possibly unfairly but tbh I can only speak as ivd found. And that has been uncaring, rude, dismissive and not terribly competent

I've never given birth, but have had several surgeries. My DSis had a crash C Section.

Me: planned laparoscopic surgery to remove gallbladder
DSis: crash C section

Me: hourly obs over night as my BP was considered a bit on the low side.
DSis: lost large amount of blood, no obs in 12 hours.

Me: warned under no circumstances to try and get out of bed alone. And then shown slowly how to get out of bed, stand with as little pain as possible.
DSis: shouted at for not being out of bed.No advice given.

Me: wheeled to and from loo first 2 times, despite insisting I was fine.
DSis: shouted at for not peeing in 12 hours! (She was very dehydrated, not addressed until the phlebotomist complained they couldn't raise a vein, it was the phlebotomist who went and got her a jug of water)

Me: had my 3 very small wounds checked several times and prior to being discharged was given detailed instructions on what infection might look/feel like.
DSis: only had her wound checked on day 3 when I pushed her to ask (it stank!) and even then they tried to fob her off, oh it's fine, just have a good wash tomorrow. She was still too dizzy to stand for any length of time, was only having a sink wash. Was desperate for a shower, but knew high chance of falling with the way she was feeling. Only dressed correctly when I very politely lost the plot on her behalf. It was infected, took months to heal properly.

That evening after BIL & I left, the MW concerned had a go at DSis, telling her if she thought she and I knew sooo much why didn't she self discharge?

DSis was ignored all that night.

Me: warned to lift nothing heavier than a kettle for the next week. Warned not to over do it. Warned of internal bruising, need to rest to let it all heal.
DSis: shouted at for not bending, twisting and lifting.

Me: wheeled to shower room, inbuilt shower chair/stool, got a discreet knock to check I was ok when I'd been there for 10 minutes.
DSis: not her but one of the other women in her ward collapsed in the shower room, wasn't till her mobile kept ringing and pissing off the staff that any of them went looking for her. DSis and other women had call belled staff to say she'd been gone a while and were ignored.

Short version, I had a relativity minor op, she had major abdominal surgery. Why was her care so different, the 2 ops were in the same hospital, in the same year?

Perhaps Panorama need to get themselves into St Thomas post natal ward

Wellnow because nurses not midwives were looking after you.

Midwives are not experienced (or even trained by the sounds of it) in post op care.

I hosted 18 months of postnatal meetings at my home for the NCT (so 18 lots of mums) and I don't think anyone had a good experience in the postnatal ward.

I did (as we paid) and my postnatal care was amazing.

Women have a right to have a supportive, caring environment after they give birth, when they are very, very vulnerable. If every woman who had a bad experience complained things may improve.

Oh and I'm a qualified Nurse,though I haven't been on the wards for about 5 years now.

I used to be always first in line to defend NHS staff, but after my last 2 admissions, my DNephews admission, OHs recent care and the stinking care friends elderly Mum received in the last few years, something has gone seriously rotten.

People don't have the time or energy to complain though. With a newborn they're exhausted and sleep deprived. This is how the wards are getting away with it.

There needs to be an easy way to complain and everyone involved in the mother's care should be named in her notes so she can identify who has been at fault.

When I trained you had to be a qualified nurse and have at least 12-18 months experience before applying to be a midwife.

If you didn't have surgical experience you really had to have something special to get in.

Very much pushed that birth was a normal process, the skill in midwifery was knowing when what was happening wasn't normal and how to deal with that. Sounds like that thought process has been lost.

as normal as a c section is now, and all women should have that choice, it is still major abdo surgery even when planned. Why isn't good post OP care considered a major part of the training?

Well, isn't this interesting - the Friends and Family test results for St Thomas's. Check out the postnatal ward results. I haven't found anything yet that says what they intend to do about it.

Guys and St Thomas's data

I've going this really difficult to read but also strangely cathartic to know I'm not alone. DC1 born in 2011 - by the time she arrived I'd not slept for 48 hours and had a 3c tear following forceps and had had a spinal and surgery. The PN ward was hell. Clean, well staffed but with HCAs and only one MW. I was covered in blood and left with my daughter out of reach; moaned at for asking someone to change her nappy - I couldn't move; had my breasts removed from my pj top and had my nipples pinched so hard that one bled - no permission sought for that little treat; I wasn't fed; water out of reach. I was clearly in shock and treated like shit. Two HCAs discussed my tear injuries on the other side of the curtain loudly and disrespectfully; given conflicting bf advice. I was then kept in for 5 days because my daughter wouldn't latch on. They wouldn't give me formula and said she didn't have tongue tie. She did. I was in too much of a state to challenge anything. I was discharged on day 6, hallucinating from lack of sleep only for my daughter to be rushed to hospital by the community mw, intubated and kept in for 3 days because she was so weak from lack of food. Tongue tie sorted while there. I then had PND, mainly triggered by the hospitals insistence on BFing, my 'inability' to do it and the emergency surrounding my daughter. I completely lost faith in my own ability to make decisions.

Dc2 - thankfully the diametric opposite experience. Was so fearful of the PN ward beforehand.

'Why isn't good post OP care considered a major part of the training?'

Good question.

I have to say that the only person I know who gave birth at St Thomas's said the PN care wasn't bad at all, but she was comparing it to a truly awful experience elsewhere in London!