To think that some women have an awful time on the postnatal ward

[elliejjtiny]

This isn't a slag off the midwives thread. In my case the midwives were perfectly lovely and kind, just very overworked.

My 2 experiences on the postnatal ward with DS4 (now 18m) and DS5 (now 6m) were horrible. I had caesareans both times and both babies were in NICU, although DS5 came and joined me on the ward for the last 3 days. Once my catheter was out I had to make my own breakfast, fetch other meals and drinks from the ward kitchen, take expressed milk down what felt like endless corridors to NICU every 4 hours and sterilize all the bottles, pump bits etc. I didn't have DH with me as he was looking after the DC's or any visitors who stayed more than 5 minutes. I could have really done with some tlc in my vulnerable and hormonal state. And some decent painkillers. I wasn't allowed morphine after the catheter came out because it made me wobbly, just paracetamol and ibubrofen. I take more than that for period pains.

But when I talk about it I get told that it didn't happen or that I'm being negative or exaggerating. It makes me feel like I'm going mad. So come and tell me your awful postnatal ward stories so that I know I'm not alone.

OP, I am so glad you started this thread and in such a sensible way. I really thought I imagined my horrible postnatal ward experience, although reading the responses on here, I realise I got off very lightly.

I gave birth early in the morning and a lovely midwife let me spend the whole day in a pleasant, empty, peaceful, airy but warm recovery room where we could enjoy those first incredibly special hours.

It was only after I was moved to the ward for the night (very minor concern about baby so obs needed) that I realised what a huge favour she had done for me (and perhaps even pulled some strings) because the contrast was so pronounced.

The ward midwives were indifferent at best and abusive at worst. I experienced rudeness and was pretty much treated like a sack of potatoes but was shocked at how vile some of the MWs were to other mothers on my ward, especially ones who seemed to struggling. If I had had the strength I would have got up and challenged them.

Yes they were clearly under pressure - one MW to a ward of six, so 12 patients. But there was no excuse for what I saw and heard and was put through. Some were just aggressive and mean and some of them were so 'checked out' that I wondered if they would really be any use if a mum or baby had a medical emergency.

I was as patient as I could be the next morning but underneath I was screaming to leave. At one point, the discharge was so delayed (for no apparent reason) that I seriously considered just walking out. I asked politely a couple of times then eventually hours later I had to beg, in tears, for the cannula to be removed from my hand as it was getting so sore and catching every time I picked up my LO. It hadn't been needed for about 14 hours but I was told "everyone has one - you just have to wait"

A week later I had to go back in as a day patient for a check up on stitches and by chance was treated by a labour ward sister who asked me what I had thought of my experience. I told her. She asked for names and I gave her a couple. I also tracked down the lovely first midwife and sent her present and a letter to say how grateful I was to her. She was one person who made a HUGE difference to my experience -one that I will treasure and remember while I blank out the time on the ward.

The bank staff who have poor English are a real problem IMHO.
Not only on postnatal wards, I've seen it on other wards too :(
One HCA ripped the side cot off my bed so forcefully she broke the bed.
One HCA screamed into an elderly ladies face on an acute ward - she was over 100 and scared. She just wanted her bed curtains opened a bit.
If I had been able to get up (post lumbar puncture) I would have helped the poor woman myself.

I am survived more women don't die in these awful PN units. I was left on my own after a long labour and instrumental delivery and crawl to the bathroom as my legs were still too numb to stand on. The bathroom was filthy and men were using it.

I wish the Health Secretary could read this thread.

Do you honestly think a Government Minister gives a flying F? They are not responsible for your health. They are responsible for telling you what you need to be told to ensure you pay tax and vote. Nothing more. So long as you continue to prop up the system and support it, they don't care what you think or I.

Problem is, unless someone can propose a solution that is a real solution, all you have is a bunch of people complaining, anecdotal stories of horror, and the required level of rhetoric and sound bites from some talking heads wheeled out onto the TV to say how bad it is, no woman should be treated that way.

If the only solution is throwing more and more money into the black hole of the NHS, then we all need to start paying into the system more than we take out. None of us do. Less than 1% of the population is willing to give more in tax than they want to take. Until we begin to be givers instead of takers, we cannot answer questions with, 'more staff, more funding, better training, etc.'

It's all very well for us to complain, and admirable that some seek to publicise their grievances, but I fail to see any solution or proposal that would change anything.

It's just occurred to me that midwifery is direct entry now isn't it? I don't think it used to be.

Am I right in thinking that most of these midwives haven't ever had any nursing experience or education?

PN wards don't need more money. What they need is staff that can show an ounce of compassion. I can put up with a lot of discomfort (not pain - my notes said discomfort ), crap food, lack of sleep, if only one MW treated me with care and not as an inconvenience that was stopping her talking about the "hot" doctor with her colleagues and reading her soap magazine.

Disciplinary and sacking those rude and unhelpful to vulnerable people, to start with.
Feedback sheets to complete on discharge.
The anaesthetist came round and asked about service.
Being honest from mw before labour about say you being left alone after possibly still under epidural and having to look after baby alone once visiting is over. I think the shock of it all will make it worse

It is not all about resources. There are a lot of cultural and attitudinal problems among the staff on post natal wards

It woudl have taken them less time to get me a drink of water than to lecture me about why I did not need it

It takes just as much time to speak kindly as to speak rudely

It take less time to pass a baby to its mother than to lecture her about why he doesn't need fed

The nursing staff on the wards I was on were not busy at all. They spend a lot of time sitting around the desk chatting and having tea parties

If you have a normal delivery, you are told that you can't get any care because they are busy with the women who've had a instrumental delivery of a section. But the accounts below show that many women get little care even aftre an operation

The question is what actions are taken from the complaints. Especially about individuals.

So what, women should just suffer, elephant? That's too defeatist.

A midwife on this thread has explained she sees twice as many patients as she used to and can't give them enough time. So it follows that, yes, more staffing would help. And obviously, more training to get rid of terrible attitudes.

That means more funding, and the question of where that comes from is a political one. That doesn't mean it's not possible, you just have to do what any interest group does and force the politicians to get off their asses. Public shaming of hospitals might help too.

There is already talk of using bank fines to pay for NHS expansion, it doesn't have to be ordinary taxpayers that pay more.

This is why I'm so angry that MN refuses to campaign on this issue. Mothers are not an organised group, we need someone to lobby for us.

What I'm noticing about our stories is the lack of compassion shown post natally. It costs nothing and the midwives concerned are letting down their profession. People should complain, though I confess I didn't. I was just glad to get home.

I had my first child in Dublin in horrendous conditions.
Never been so happy to have NHS care and treated so well in Scotland.

I think these post natal departments are totally relying on the fact that most women are too tired, busy, in pain, recovering and even infected to have the energy to make a complaint.

YANBU - I still have a difficult time, feelings etc after having DS1 at a particular London hospital!

He was breech, I was due a CS anyway but it became an EMCS as I went into labour before due date. I felt like absolute crap going into recovery. I kept trying to tell the staff I didn't feel well, heart was racing, felt sick etc. They kept glossing over it. I went down to the ward at 4am and they made DP go home - even though he could come back at 8. I felt really ill and alone...got ignored until I haemorrhaged. Got fixed, felt like death - had no idea what to do, what was going to happen etc. Got ignored. Everytime I tried to BF I was in agony - had no help and I was glad to get out of there. Felt like death for 5 weeks pp - really affected how I was bonding with DS1. Went back to hospital for DS's hip scan because he was breech and I bumped into my Obstetrician - he commented on how ill I looked = turns out I had retained placenta following the CS and got admitted that day for emergency surgery (I can't begin to explain how amazingly better I felt after that surgery!!)

With DD - I was at a different hospital in Greater London/Kent but well prepared for the amount of crap you can possibly encounter. Surgical team were fantastic, I knew how recovery was going to be etc. 1 or 2 midwives were ok - apart from one in charge during the day shift. She was really mean and especially to the lady opposite me - clearly in distress and LO wasn't well. She couldn't BF and this midwife was a complete and utter b*tch to her (I'm not joking!!). I helped her out as much as I could as I know how awful and lonely the pp experience can be for some. I had other issues after having DD (neurological stuff) and I self discharged because I didn't want to stay any longer than necessary. Far better experience compared to having DS and I know they are short staffed/overworked etc but yeah...

Still feel guilty over the whole thing and how I bonded with DS - who will be 5 next March :(

Yes, a lot of women have a bad time. But millions of women give birth every year without dying. In spite of being too old and/or too unfit. We should not be surprised.

I had an EMCS after a failed induction at 39 weeks. Rare reaction led to violent contractions, pessary left in when it should have been removed, massive blood loss due to placenta abruption, DS in distress, high dependency for 17 hours due to low oxygen and loosing 2 litres of blood. But the c section went without a hitch!
Postnatal was awful. Bed bound for two days. On day two mum had to remind staff to change my pad on my bed (overflowing with stinking blood). Couldn't physically get up to pick up DS to feed and change. I had to ring for help. 3am early New Years day, I buzzed. DS was crying every hour to be fed. Midwife came in and sternly told me to feed my child because they were overstretched. (Woman in bed opposite told me it was a lie - they were sitting having a gossip whilst stuffing their face with chocolate). DS then taken to SCBU due to low blood sugar and possible GBS. I was moved to my own room. I had about three hours of brilliant care but after that, I only ever saw someone to fill my water jug or inject me with heprin. I was helped up that day and began moving about - visiting DS when I wanted and SCBU were brilliant - healthcare assistants helped with breast feeding, pumping and caused world war three with midwives on postnatal when they suggested nipple shields. Day five I asked about DS blood group (I am b new) and told he was neg do no anti-d needed. Next day they came with Nti-d and said he was actuall A+!!! DS came out of SCBU only to be told 24 hours later he was jaundiced and needed light therapy.
I liked my own room, as had en suite, but I was getting so lonely after a week and isolated that I nearly flipped.

I think it's almost inevitable that if, or hopefully when, women say 'enough is enough, we shouldn't be treated like this' the standard answer from the government, or from NHS managers, will be 'more training is needed'. Which may be true but I find it quite a depressing thought that people whose job it is to care for a mother when she is very vulnerable might actually need to attend a training course to be told 'we should treat mothers as people, speak kindly, show some compassion'. I have no medical training at all yet I know that if someone is in pain and distressed, a smile or a kind word can help.

Funding is more generous in the Scottish health service but sadly even here I met some staff with compassion bypass.

I remember the poor exhausted woman opposite whose breakfast was left out of reach - I hobbled across and passed her a juice before the rest was whisked away. There was a fair bit of aggressive unnecessary nonsense from some staff explained away by saying women have to get moving.

Then there was the frazzled, crying baby who had had a difficult birth being described to the young mother as being "naughty"! That poor lass (never had a partner visit her) wept through the night as the child wailed in a really distressed way. How they could speak to her all the while like she was at fault is beyond me. She asked for help to get to the loo and was shouted at. I was in a bad physical state and exhausted and couldn't do anything to help her. Awful when I think back, bullying really.

Wow, Argy, so it's women's faults - too old, 'unift' - and hey, they don't die, so it's all good.