to think it's wrong for a dead woman to be used as an incubator?

[twofingerstoGideon]

One of the most dreadful stories I've read in a long time. Could be triggering.

'Clinically dead' (that's dead, isn't it?) woman kept on life support machine to support 17 week fetus. Her own parents want the life support switched off. I really can't get my head around this at all.

AIBU to think we need to do everything possible to prevent our abortion laws becoming more restrictive and fight against the anti-choice demonstrators who are becoming more and more vociferous and ever-present outside clinics.

Surely even the most staunch anti-choicer can't argue that this is right.

story here

Oh thank God for that, now she can be laid to rest.

Just saw this, thank goodness, been thinking about the family of this poor woman & hope they get some peace now.
A horrendous thing to have to go through & shame on Ireland that women are treated like second class citizens with no rights over their own bodies.

So glad the court has made the right decision. I do hope this will lead to a repeal of the 8th amendment. Irish women deserve so much more.

Doesn't the 8th amendment say that it defends the right to life of the unborn 'as far as is practicable'? Surely in this case it just wasn't practicable. I think if it was possible to keep a woman 'alive' and deliver a healthy baby (as has happened in other countries) then it is worth a try but clearly it just wasn't working in this case.

I do still think that this has nothing to do with women not having rights over their body. The woman may very well have wanted them to try to save the baby so automatically switching off life support may have been going against her decision. I still think people are trying to make this about abortion laws in Ireland when it isn't abortion. An excuse for Ireland-bashing!

Poor woman. Thank God the court made the right decision. I don't think I have read anything as medically inhumane in a long time. And all because Drs are scared they might be sued. Shameful!

OopsButItWasntMe, How about if you could transfer the foetus to another woman who happened to be on life support? Is that ok too? After all you could speculate that that woman might have agreed if given a choice.

If anyone wants to be an incubator they need to sign something in advance. Failing that it's normal to ask the next-of-kin to decide for her. In this case the next-of-kin said no on her behalf and were ignored.

The two are interlinked in the constitution, it's not Ireland bashing.

It is absolutely terrifying being very ill when pregnant knowing that ultimately your right to life is equal to that of a non viable fetus.

The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.

BackOnlyBriefly I don't think this is a common enough occurrence to have women signing things. It just seems that plenty of women on this thread, myself included, would want our baby to be given a chance to survive if possible. If it was possible to transfer the foetus then it could be transferred to a healthy person rather than another woman on life support. If the woman had said that she didn't want to be kept alive for the sake of the baby and the parents/next of kin wanted her to be do you think they have the right to decide that?

Fanny the woman was dead so it's not about an equal right to life. In that article earlier about other cases where a BD mother has been kept alive it talked about a doctor's duty to preserve the life of the unborn child if a pregnant woman dies so that isn't exclusive to Ireland.

My point about a transfer to someone else on life support was that you wouldn't have to ask their permission either would you.

It's just muddying the waters to talk about the woman's wishes being contradicted by next of kin. If there had been an instruction from her that would have had the priority. In the absence of any way to consult this woman the usual thought would be to consult next of kin as the people most likely to know what she would have wanted.

Oh and if the argument is that the woman is dead and has no rights then you wouldn't need permission to harvest organs.

This wasn't even about the foetus really, but a bad law that leaves doctors unsure what is acceptable.

Here is one of the doctor's opinions on the case:

'The doctor said they did not know the legal status of the foetus. He said he had seen dreadful things, but he had never seen this.

He said the way the family had dealt with the situation was touching and humbling. He said it was very, very difficult not to be able to follow the family's wishes.'

If it wasn't for the eighth amendment the woman and her fetus would have been allowed to die together at the end of November. The only reason that her corpse was preserved (in as much as it was able to be preserved, which was clearly very limited) and her family (and I suspect those that had to look after her body) was put through hell is the application of a particular law in Ireland.

It's quite horrific and I'm very very glad that at least for this family this horrible situation has come to an end. Unfortunately it's quite likely that similar things may well happen in the future.

And yes I do think that decisions should be made by the next of kin. If you have ever had a family member in end of life care you will know that being able to have some control/influence is incredibly important.

I completely agree with 'Chaseface'. May she and her child rest in peace.

Oh, thank god. Now this poor woman and her foetus can be laid to rest.

I was opposed to it because of the horror of the mother being used as a thing, but I was also separately opposed to it because of the horror being visited on the foetus. I would hate to have any child go through that (not that I think it would have survived to "birth", or very long after that).

Her poor family, having endured all this. Hopefully this will lead to a re-examination of the law and how it impacts the healthcare treatment of women.

OopsButItWasntMe far from Ireland bashing. Just it's fucked up 8th amendment, which was the problem in this case, in the Savita Halappanavar case and is the problem in women being able to access safe and legal abortion.