to think it's wrong for a dead woman to be used as an incubator?

[twofingerstoGideon]

One of the most dreadful stories I've read in a long time. Could be triggering.

'Clinically dead' (that's dead, isn't it?) woman kept on life support machine to support 17 week fetus. Her own parents want the life support switched off. I really can't get my head around this at all.

AIBU to think we need to do everything possible to prevent our abortion laws becoming more restrictive and fight against the anti-choice demonstrators who are becoming more and more vociferous and ever-present outside clinics.

Surely even the most staunch anti-choicer can't argue that this is right.

story here

Dip... I rather thought this quote ""We are all hoping, the whole family and everyone else that I know, that something should come about to get us out of this rather horrible catastrophe," he said." might be talking about the foetus's father as well, however, maybe the woman's father doesn't know the man who fathered this child. It's a possibility I suppose.

Or this one "He also told the Irish Independent that the entire family was united on the issue." although, maybe he doesn't count the man who fathered the foetus as family.

Good to see the article has been updated to include the possible hearing date though.

There's very little said about the father's wishes anywhere. I really hope that his feelings aren't being ignored simply because they weren't married. I think his opinion is important.

It's not a matter of choice though is it? The woman can't make a choice and never will be able to. The father of the child is the closest relative of the unborn child and we don't know that he hasn't been consulted - I think there is more behind this news article than we are being told.

I haven't got the links but the father of the unborn child and the woman's other children has spoken in court saying he agrees with the family's decision to remove life support.

It's being reported in the Irish independent.

Apologies, it's not in the Indpendent but can't find the link I'm thinking of. This link does mention the father of the unborn baby being in agreement though www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/woman-on-life-support-medics-feared-legal-position-1.2045891

A list of several Irish news stories, all confirming that the father of the foetus agrees with ending life support.

Case in court

MASSIVE Trigger warning, there are some very grim facts in this one, which will undoubtedly distress some people

Another MASSIVE trigger warning, more grim details of this woman's situation

This woman isn't just laying like Sleeping Beauty. I am really sorry if I have offended or upset anyone.

Repeal the 8th

Amen to that . It's really clear from reading these links that this woman isn't 'being kept alive' - she's dead. And this isn't about doctors wanting to do the best for her unborn child, let alone trying to 'play God.' This is about doctors being forced to act unethically by a terrible piece of legislation.

That poor family

Puffins: those articles do indeed make grim reading, but I have benefited from reading them.

Some of my earlier questions about this situation have now been answered beyond doubt, and I have seen the doctors' description of medical reality of what happens to a body maintained only by machine. It is not like someone alive but in a long term coma. It is not like a few days for the decision to become beyond doubt (for a family having difficulty coming to terms with switching off machines) or to permit transplant. Or even short term intervention to give a baby at or close to viability a bit of time for eg steroids for lung preparation to maximise survival chances.

As there seems to be no prospect of a healthy baby, and little chance even of survival, the description of 'grotesque' is an understatement.

As it appears she died on 3 December, why has this taken so long for a ruling?

If they all agree then I think perhaps turning the machines off should happen. It's easy to say that though, it's not as simple as that is it?

Puffin thanks for posting those, very informative. Poor family.

Looking at the expert testimony I cannot see how the court could come to any conclusion other than to end the life support. It is so, so sad.

I am guessing though it will be appealed to the Supreme Court for constitutional clarity but since no side is actually currently suggesting a position which will keep the life support indefinitely that will be purely to guide what happens in future if a similar situation were to occur. It is a mess to find ourselves, again, in a situation like this, definitely repeal the 8th an horrific ill judged piece of legislation.

if it were as simple as keeping her heart beating and delivering a healthy baby in six months time I could understand someone doing this. the reality is totally different to this the poor woman's body will be slowly deteriorating and the baby if it beat the odds and survived would have unknown medical problems and what quality of life exactly.

im Irish and im disgusted by this. I feel for all the medical staff involved as no doubt this has to be one of the worst cases they have worked with. her poor family deserve some closure.

Obviously the irony of those of you claiming to be "pro-choice" in this case is lost on you...

This is depressing reading. It says a lot about people's ideas of women in today's society.

What on earth do you mean by that Sparks?

I am not sure what you mean either sparks? It is not an abortion situation so I don't see how pro choice applies.

Another Irish woman here, utterly aghast at what is playing out in the courts and that hospital right now as I type. We are not just vessels. Repeal the 8th. That poor woman, her family, her children having to witness her condition. It's appalling.

What is being done to that poor woman, her baby and her family is nothing short of cruel, and it shames any civilised society. This really has to be brought to an end as soon as possible.

I don't think anyone actually wants to keep her alive, it's just that clause that is stopping the doctors being able to act. Very tragic all round,

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/woman-must-stay-on-life-support-if-real-prospect-unborn-viable-court-hears-1.2048425

Not sure if I am linking but here is some commentary on today's proceedings grim reading.

How awful.

It seems clear from the articles linked that everyone is in agreement that the only ethical and right thing to do is to turn off the life support machines.

This is a very sobering lesson on badly drafted, badly thought out legislation and the frankly horrific effects it can have when applied in individual cases.

If the Irish government don't repeal the eighth amendment then there is something very, very wrong.

It's absolutely repulsive.

Jaysus, another

I hope the judges are more enlightened than the lawyers acting for the 8th amendment (and no, they aren't working for the foetus, they really aren't)

Sparks1007

Obviously the irony of those of you claiming to be "pro-choice" in this case is lost on you...

I am irony personified, and I have no clue what you're alluding to here.

This is depressing reading. It says a lot about people's ideas of women in today's society.

I agree, it says a huge amount about how women's bodies are mere vessels, incubators for the unborn. It says huge amounts about how women are regarded in Irish law.

everyone else

I apologise again for those really upsetting links, but I hope that like Auntie Stella you gained something from reading them.

And again with the Repeal the 8th.

I don't know that it says much about women in today's society.

I think it says a lot about women in Ireland.

The 8th amendment giving the fetus equal status is everything to do with there being no abortion in Ireland. The two are one & the same, this is why this appalling situation has come about & also the tragic case of
Savita Halappanavar who died because of the legislation.

I hope this poor woman's family get some peace & a chance to grieve very soon.

The Courts have now made their ruling, and the machines can be switched off