To think this is a bit racist?

[EMS23]

Two friends from completely separate friendship groups have recently expressed a similar opinion to me. They have each moved their DC from a school because 'she was one of only two children not called Mohammed' / 'they were all Muslims - I don't want my kid being the minority'.

After the first one, I was pretty sure it was mildly racist, felt a bit uncomfortable about it but I rarely see her so just thought, whatever, bit of a shame but no great loss.
Then one of my oldest and best friends said the exact same thing and now I don't know how to feel. I love her and have always really respected her intelligence so now what?
Am I being hyper sensitive here? I'm a white British person so i don't think I feel offended for myself IYSWIM but I abhor racism in any form and never imagined myself as being friends with people that I knew were.

Re kids in school.

Not entirely convinced about the need to be in a powerful majority, but I do think humans have an urge to be with 'people like me'. That can mean social class, accent, ideology, religion or appearance.

Unfortunately skin color is obvious from a distance so tends to be a focus for that urge. I suppose people who wear clothing or symbols that mark them out as coming from a different background suffer from that too as that can be seen immediately. After all you don't know if someone voted Labour or Tory until you've actually spoken to them a bit. By that time you may have decided you liked them anyway despite their poor taste in political party.

Not that it controls everyone and nor should it. There's also a fascination with variety that balances it in most people. If it was too strong we'd all still be living in little villages peering nervously down the road in case a scary stranger from the next town came over.

It's an interesting point. I live in a Greater London borough with a wide racial mix, and although the primary schools seem fairly well integrated with no one ethnicity/religion having the monopoly (apart from the 2 Jewish primaries), at secondary school level it suddenly sharply splits - although there are a couple with a balanced mix, there are several schools known as White/Asian/Black schools and it seems to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, as no-one wants their child to be in the minority, so people go to great lengths to avoid certain schools and get their child into the 'right' one - funnily enough the two 'Asian' schools are Outstanding while one of the 'White' school has been in Special Measures, so you'd think everyone would want their child to get into the "Asian" schools, but no, they still say 'I'm not sending my child there, it's full of Asians and they don't mix yada yada yada" .

DD was one of 3 white children in her year and I didn't think it affected her social life, as she was always invited to birthday parties and the odd holiday time play date - until we moved schools this year (for reasons to do with her dyslexia) to one that happens to be more balanced in its ethnic mix and suddenly her social life has exploded - it could be pure coincidence, but there's a lot more of what I would call 'normal', casual socialising - going round to a friend's for tea, meeting up after school for coffee or going home via the swings etc - rather than it being 'official' birthday parties only.

It would be easy to say this is down to race, but on examination I would say it's more to do with the circumstances of the parents - at DD's old school, most parents worked full time and did not pick their children up from after school club til 6.30pm. DD's new school has no afterschool provision and most of the parents either work part time or are SAHPs, so have time to socialise and to enable their children's social life. There is also the business of tutoring - most of the children in her old school, which was fiercely academic, went to tutoring sessions several nights a week, while her new school is far less pressured and the children seem to have a lot more free time to play.

So it's not as simple as "Asian/Muslim children don't mix", there are many factors to take into account.

cucumber yes again I agree with your explanation. I refer to a situation where there is less opportunity to socialise because some groups of people do not want and explicitly instruct their children not to play with people outside their group. This in some instances may leave less scope for play and friendship.

I must admit I am a bit 'hot' on this as DS is going through a tough time socially. I think opprtunity to mix with all different types of people is a good thing but I think it also important to teach values of respect for and acceptance of differences.

Like I said ^ I have a mixed group of friends brown/white and different religions but it just doesnt come up - the children play and we talk about them/cooking/tv etc. But then there are other groups - say what i call the gym bunnies at the gym who I would never dream of sitting having a coffee with they are very 'tight'. You just get that some people do and some dont. Once groups are formed they can become a bit fixed.

I do not think they were racist and think they were merely expressing opinion that they wanted to move their children as they didn't want yo be in the minority, that is their prerogative.

The friends in question are displaying sectarianism as opposed to racism given that Muslims follow a religion. It's a tricky one because the parents might feel their children will find it hard to make friends and as the minority white children could feel isolated. It's not racist to want your child to not feel different. How can it be? Their use of language was clumsy and unwelcome but ignorant rather than racist. It's a shame because the more parents that feel like this the less everyone mixes. I suspect too that Muslim parents will prefer their own children to mix with predominately Muslim kids.

Racism is not a one-way street.

I work with two girls who are British of Indian Descent, one Hindu, one Sikh. Both much younger than me, both lovely.

The younger of the two attended the Grammar school locally which is infamous for being populated by children of "mostly Indian / Pakistani descent".

I was putting my child up to sit the 11+ for entry there and she advised me that there's a lot of bullying because the white girls separate themselves and don't mix, very much a them and us feeling. I asked her whether this was mutual? She explained that the Hindu, Sikh and Muslim girls mixed in but that the white girls were different.

Different how? I asked.

"They're easy. They've got no morals." She explained. (This is a High School obviously.)

Now, this girl is not racist, in the time I've worked with her she's had white boyfriends. (To which the older girl said when viewing a picture on her phone of him. "Ew, he's white! Why do wanna go out with a white boy?")

Currently her boyfriend is mixed race (black/white) and her Mother had a fit. The mother was fine with the white boyfriends, but not black, that's not on apparently.

Don't be blind to racism going both ways. This idea of 'culture' is fine but when you believe your 'culture' is superior (and thus making others infererior) that's a problem too.

Like I say, of these two girls, the younger does give me some hope of a more open-minded younger generation. I don't think it's quite the doom and gloom that the rise of extremism in the UK would have us fear, there's hope, things can improve.

I'm of Asian descent but any children with DP would look white and wouldn't want my child at a mostly Muslim school. Especially a daughter with such a sexist culture. Equally though I wouldn't want my child at a crazy catholic one with such a hypocritical culture. I think a mixture of religions and culture is the best for schools like vegetables.

Plus there is the whole being looked down upon for being white thing which not many posters seem to actually admitting happens. I do have a friend who moved her son as "he came home stinking of curry every night and it kept giving me a headache". That comment definitely

Of course it cuts both ways. I know Shias who are looked down upon/barely tolerated by Sunni in laws. Not really an issue with religion or race but culture.

I don't have any relatives called Muhammed/Mohammed but I think that its common in some parts of the wold as a first name but the kids generally are called by a middle name.

A classic is a friends dad (Kenyan Indian) 'oh there goes the neighbourhood' when a muslim family moved next door.

Maybe its also a bit of a class thing too? In our old school we had a lot of muslim kids - parents were diplomats, lecturers, researchers, senior managers in the City - and the kids mixed with everyone, were very tolerant of other religions/races/cultures. The parents were very friendly, open, got stuck in with the PTA and sports day, didn't huddle in cliques etc.

I did hear one French mum say 'we are leaving the school as there are too many french kids here', so I guess people have many reasons for not wanting one culture/race/language to be the predominant one in a school. We live in a very mixed area and I want our school to reflect that too.

Thanks for all your replies and balance of views. It's really interesting to read.
I've learnt a few things:

1. Muslim is not a race so I used the wrong word.
2. It's not a clear cut issue
3. I'm not going to lose friends over it. Like religion and politics, it will be a subject best avoided.

Agree that if they did in fact word it like that then yes it sounds racist.

However I don't disagree with their reasoning and their choice for moving their schools.

I have a friend who has moved her child from a primary school in London because her 7 year old son was regularly teased. I won't go into details of why and what was said but he is much happier in his new school bless him.

OP - I dont tnink people were saying they wanted segregation, but that they wanted a greater mix of cultures.
I wouldnt want my dc to go to a school where the culture was so different from my own - as someone said upthread not beig allowed to come to tea, to play, to parties, or trips to the park,. Then, as they got older not being able to go off swiming or bowling or pictures or into town or on camp with their school mates, which - particularly as dc go through puberty, many, many muslims are not allowed to go off and do with their friends.

My dd currently has an ongoing problem with a child who used to be a friend until her mother told her that she's not allowed to be friends with none Muslims or go to none Muslim parties. This has now degenerated into bullying as dd obviously cannot socialise or play with her and has other friends. So this woman's attitude has directly contributed to hostility amongst 7 and 8 year olds. It's not at all uncommon either, I know of other similar situations and it's always Muslim parents preventing friendships between their children and none Muslims, never the other way round.

I certainly would move my dd if she was in the minority within a school of predominantly Muslim children, based on our own experiences.

Pool Nicki-DD. Does the school not do anything? If the boot was on the other foot there would be such a stink kicked up. Actually I would probably go and knock on her door and ask why she is such a stuck-up, snotty, prejudiced cowbag.

Some of the comments on this thread are frustrating.

Yes they sound racist. Of course they are exaggerating. This is such a classic example of white privilege.

My DS is mixed race and whenever I mention to white people that I will be looking to send him to a multi cultural school they look confused. Why wouldn't I want him to go to a white school? It doesn't matter, we're all friendly, children don't see colour, racism doesn't exist!...until the tables are turned.

I suspect that the school in question merely has more Muslim children than is expected (ie no more than 5).

The school are completely ineffectual. However to a certain extent I can't really blame them. What can they really do?

It saddens me that this attitude has created such conflict when it was so unnecessary. All this Mum had to do was wait a few years and the friendship would have diverged naturally as they had less and less in common.

I suspect people who accuse others of exaggeration don't live in areas where you see schools which are predominantly one thing or another.

One school near us is in a housing scheme where the council houses refugee families, so not surprisingly, kids come and go, and the vast majority of children are from Iraq/Syria/Somalia.

I too think that posters saying there aren't schools with that high numbers of either people from one religion, or culture, or with families from a particualr part of the world, clearly don't live in my city. Just because its not like that where you live, doesnt mean that schools like that aren't common.
CB - what on earth are you talking about "no more than 5" ??? In my city, over half of the 260 000 odd children and young people under 19 have identified themselves (or parents have, obv) as BME. Now why would you think there would be schools where they wouldnt be in the majority ? (realises this has widened a bit from op's original post purely about muslim children.)

I live in an area that is predominantly one culture, and that culture is not my own. There have been serious issues with some of the schools in this area teaching according to religion rather than the curriculum.

I wouldn't send my child to a school with a strong religious focus, no matter what the religion was. I am, however, happy for my child to go to a school where they're a minority - provided I like other aspects of the school of course! To refuse to do so because my child wouldn't be surrounded by other white children would feel racist to me.

Plus - if my kid picks up a bit of another language from friends at school then great! I know people who send their children to schools with lots of french kids, or hire multi-lingual nannies for precisely this reason, and I really don't get the issue.

I wouldn't want my child to be in a minority at school. Be it having English as a first language, religion, colour, whatever.

And being white British with a vague non towards Christianity as my religion and living in England, I don't think that is too much to hope for.

I wouldn't have worded it like that at all but I did discount a primary school nearby that had around 90% Asian (many being immigrants) intake as I was worried about any possible social impact on my children with making friends etc.