To think this is a bit racist?

[EMS23]

Two friends from completely separate friendship groups have recently expressed a similar opinion to me. They have each moved their DC from a school because 'she was one of only two children not called Mohammed' / 'they were all Muslims - I don't want my kid being the minority'.

After the first one, I was pretty sure it was mildly racist, felt a bit uncomfortable about it but I rarely see her so just thought, whatever, bit of a shame but no great loss.
Then one of my oldest and best friends said the exact same thing and now I don't know how to feel. I love her and have always really respected her intelligence so now what?
Am I being hyper sensitive here? I'm a white British person so i don't think I feel offended for myself IYSWIM but I abhor racism in any form and never imagined myself as being friends with people that I knew were.

Re kids in school.

My ds really benefitted from being in a school with lots of children who had English as a second language. His own communication difficulties didn't stand out and so much of the teaching was geared round supporting and improving communication and language. We both still miss that school.

At my DDs secondary school, (which she chose to go to and was very happy at) she was known as 'mininotquite, the white girl'. The only problem (which she found more funny than offensive) was when her friends tried to pair her up with the only white boy in her class on the grounds that 'they were both white'. She made some good friends at that school and learned a lot about other cultures.

Are muslims being racist by not mixing with white people? Genuine question, racism can work both ways.

I don't think Muslims are racist, but anti-semitism in the Muslim community is a big but hidden problem though.

You and two friends want to/have removed DC from school due to Muslim pupils?

I did some supply work in an area of my city with a very large Muslim community. In the full school assembly there were 4 white children. So I agree you do get pockets in some areas with a very high concentration of certain ethnic groups. And while its' totally true that all kids are the same, it's entirely possible that a proportion of Muslim children (esp from more religious families) won't be able to accept play dates/sleepovers/parties.

Excellent point shedding - siphoning off an area's Christian children into CE schools will obviously lead to more non-Christians in other schools. But we don't tend to see people getting worked up about that.

As I said before the choice of words used by OPs friends sounds racist. However they might not be exaggerating the numbers (well not the names thing - that is daft).

In my home town (a London borough) 92.8% of school children are from a minority ethnic group. (Perhaps not from the same minority ethnic group and some could be 3rd generation or more).

I think it's true that very small children don't notice or care, but 'being the odd one out' can cause problems even when all are white/british if some are poorer than the rest or stand out in some other way. We have children who are isolated or even bullied for having the wrong color hair.

Apatite, how do you feel about Jewish people sending their kids to Jewish schools, Muslims to Muslim schools and Catholics to Catholic schools?

Are muslims being racist by not mixing with white people? Genuine question, racism can work both ways

I think you're a bit confused. Muslims and non-Muslims come in all colours.

I agree Cucumber because I have experienced both - I can only go from that which means keep an open mind you dont know how people can be.

YES - I could give other accounts (gym/school/ladies circle/small business owners) of people staying in there little groups and being snobby/dismissive whatever - but if thats their choice then thats simply it, you have to respect that and just get alongside.

I really believe in live and let live. Some mix, some don't. But when it comes to your kids who are learning to form friendships and social skills you do need to provide an environment where that can happen.

siphoning off an area's Christian children into CE schools will obviously lead to more non-Christians in other schools. But we don't tend to see people getting worked up about that.

Yes we do. There have been loads of threads on religious schools. I'm vehemently opposed to religious schools of any kind; especially state funded ones.

Over 30 years ago I started primary school in a school with a high Sikh and Hindi population. I had friends of those backgrounds. My daughter was actually the only white girl in her tutor group at secondary school in SE London, and it didn't even occur to her that this was the case.

I also read Muslim as code for 'brown' sadly. The diverse cultural heritage of immigrants to the UK is getting rather lost in the media coverage, isn't it?

it sounds like one of those racist comments you get from really thick basic people

BackOnlyBriefly: 98%? Goodness, where is that? Across a whole borough? In Tower Hamlets, for example, 55% of he population are 55% BAME, (40% average in other boroughs) and Tower Hamlets has the highest proportion of muslims of any other LA in the country at 35%.

Phaedra it does seem to lead to a lot of bother.

I woldnt go off LA stats as communities and catchment areas can be concetrated within an LA

i bet theres like three muslims in the school or something and theyre freaking out

andsmileitschristmas - Reading your post my issue would be with your last paragraph :-
'But when it comes to your kids who are learning to form friendships and social skills you do need to provide an environment where that can happen.'

If I had acted as you suggest, my childern would go to a school with a majority of muslim children in order to provide them with better social skills.
I would counter that mixing with children who are different, provides my children with the ability to mix with children from all types of backgrounds and understand that people are fundamentally the same regardless of their religious beliefs or colour of skin.
I believe that eventually would make for a more tolerant and understanding society.

I think you're being a bit judgmental and "holier than thou".

Seems to me your friends were saying that there was not enough cultural mix at the school. I don't think they were being racist.

I used to help out with reading at a primary in Tower Hamlets. The overwhelming majority of the pupils were of Pakistan decent and to each other (in private conversations or the playground) the children would naturally speak Urdu. They were all lovely children, but inevitably the language barrier created division and exclusion for the few not able to follow. I would not want that for my child.

Depends. If their kids were having a hard time fitting in because they were one of the few non-muslims and it singled them out, I can see why they'd do it. But if it was just a blanket statement with a child that was perfectly happy in school, then yes it could be racist/prejudiced/I'm not too fussed about the actual word.

You might want to question the context a bit further, sometimes a sentence doesn't do a good job summing up a complex situation.

I wasn't familiar with the name Ruby Bridges so Googled her story.
She spent the first year apart from all other children in a class on her own (presumably because the school board believed that she would not have been accepted, and possibly harmed, by them) and only joined them in the second year when there were more black kids (I.e. when the class was mixed and she wouldn't be the only one 'different').

I'm pretty sure it wasn't entirely smooth running after that because of my experience of being the 'different' kid at school. At schools. My parents jobs involved a lot of travel and so around every 2 years until I turned 15 I moved school (usually changing country and often language in the process), only once going to a school where the other children were 'like me' (the school in the village I was born when my mother had a year off to have my brother). The other schools were hard going - I have probably spent around 4 years in total of my school-life alone in the playground/eating lunch by myself, and by 10 I was an exceptional fist-fighter. As I got older it got easier - 'different' becomes 'exotic' to your peers and, once your interests have matured, the ability to experience the country is a decent pay off for the chore of learning the language.
I wouldn't wish my younger years on any child under the age of 7 though - firstly starting school is hard enough without being at a social/cultural disadvantage too and secondly though children can be horrible regardless of background/nationality they are always worse when in a 'pack' - Lord of the flies anyone?

The main reason Ruby's mother used as an argument to put her through it was because she believed there was a much better education (and subsequent chance of future jobs) available at the former White school. The cost in the first year was to her parents (fiscal and ostracisation) as well as to Ruby (facing protests daily and isolation from other children) and I wonder whether her mother would have made the same choice if there had been no perceived advantage.

I appreciate what they did. It took guts and helped make history but having been on the receiving end of a similar (though infinitely smaller,

Blu I was a bit surprised myself. I knew it would be quite high so would serve as an example, but I don't live there now so had to google it.

NHS England

All religions are bollicks anyway.

It pisses me off that our local first and middle schools are Cof E and my kids had to pray etc. no choice as it's our local school.

If the parents and governors were driving a heavy religious agenda that would annoy me and I would probably move them.

For me couldn't give a shiny shite what fairy tales parents belive or teach their own kids but have a rooted objection to them trying to teach mine crap as if it was true.

My kids make up their own minds.

To me a school should he a secular learning facility. If it is then that's fine. If not it's failing.

Growing up there was one chinese kid at my entire primary school. The rest of us were white. Throughout school this happened a lot with a few different races. It was just a very white area.

I don't think many white people take a look at their kids schools and make any kind of special effort to include kids from other cultures if they're a tiny minority, or wonder at the parent that allows their child to go to school and be the only one of their race there. But white people seem to get very concerned if their white child is going to be a minority.

I do think it's racist. I don't think it's actively racist, in that I don't think most people think other races are lesser or scary, I think it is a deep seated cultural racism where we feel quite unsettled at not being in a powerful majority. It's understandable, but it's wrong. It is also almost always 'most of the other children are muslim' or 'most of the other children are black'. And often I do feel the subtext is 'most of the other children are poor.' In my experience that is more often the issue, and somehow people think it's appropriate to couch it as being about language or their child feeling 'left out'.