to feel cheated that you can't actually have it all?

[ChocolateOrangeInASantaHat]

Many moons ago I was educated in a fantastically positive school, where as females we were taught that we could achieve anything a male could achieve and that if we worked hard enough and planned well enough, we could 'have it all' in life.

So now, with my collection of letters after my name, respectable job, 2 usually well-behaved children, lovely husband and a multitude of lists to keep life running smoothly, I'm slowly realising that it doesn't matter how hard I work or how meticulously I plan, unless I steal a bloody tardis I still can't have it all.

Feeling particularly bitter as was up all night with poorly child, who I then left with a relative to not miss work today (=feeling like rubbish mother) and then as I'd had no sleep I was not very productive at work (=also feeling like rubbish employee). Since others at my level are generally male and tend to have stay at home wives, this kind of feeling inadequate at both home and work doesn't tend to occur for them.

Honestly feeling like I should advise daughter to either:
a) marry rich man, get good prenup and focus on children/household or
b) be career driven and marry man who is happy to stay at home and focus on children/household.

AIBU to feel cheated that I can't 'have it all'? (NB in case lost in my sleep-deprivedness this is a --partially- tongue-in-cheek AIBU)

[RojaGato]

Would it help to consider that maybe a mature and satisfying life can be achieved by working out what matters in particular to you and prioritising that, rather than trying to conform to some one size fits notion of "having it all".

[TellmetogetonwithmyWork]

DH and I do share pretty equally, but he doesn't have the guilt. And when he is job hunting he isn't feeling guilty about picking a full time one or asking them about flexible working options or worried that if he is never at school drop off he will never know what is going on etc etc

[TellmetogetonwithmyWork]

I do fully accept though that it is my own making, I am so glad we live where we do (school, close to family who help out, lovely neighbours) and it isn't expensive by my colleagues' standards but we could have picked a cheaper house and our options would be wider re work. That is the kind of having it all That I can't have too and that is my stupidity. If that makes sense!

[HamishBamish]

No, you can't have it all. I don't think most women want to have it all either. Every working mother I know (apart from one who has a live in nanny) would rather be at home with their children. Having 2 working parents short changes everyone, especially the children. If I had a choice I wouldn't work.

Women who work often find themselves run down and exhausted because unless you have a huge amount of support from family or a nanny etc, then you end up working all day AND doing the household tasks as well. Meals still need to be made, homework done, clothes washed etc. Yes, partners can and do help out, but it's still stressful. Just managing the school run is bad enough. I start at 7am in order to stop working at 4 and then I'm back at my desk from 7-10 and that's with no commute as I work from home.

It's shit.

[ohweeeell]

I am personally of the belief that you can't have it all at once. You can certainly achieve almost anything you want but you can rarely achieve all the things you want to at the same time.

When we had DD I gave up my job and now have part time work which fits into my DHs days off so that one of us is always with her. We don't have family who are able to help out & this seems to work for us. Do I miss my old job? Yes, but it wouldn't work for us both to be full time parents with no support network, so something had to give and we manage the childcare between the two of us.

I get a bit fed up listening to friends who work full time, have lots of help from parents/PIL, tell me how exhausted they are and how lucky I am that I "don't have to work" I do have have to work, I don't have free childcare and the nursery fees were more than my salary. We don't get help or the two holidays a year you get, we get very little time off all together. It's all about priorities, in my view there is usually a trade off somewhere, something has to give.

[ithoughtofitfirst]

I have noticed that i've aged loads facially since worrying loads more about being perfect all the time. I graduated with a first, had a great job but then got ill and have never been able to replicate anything like the overall success of my former self. And i've just worn myself out trying. I feel like 'having it all' is a bit of a mug's game unless you can get as close it as possible without letting it get to you. It just chews you up and spits you out if you're a bit of a sensitive sausage like me. I just concentrate on a really simple life these days. Parenting, crafts, spending time with family etc and i think when i go back to work after dd it will be to do something really chilled.

[springalong]

Holeintheheart said it perfectly for me. I do think it explains my disillusionment with life right now. Career stopped, failed marriage, child with issues. I tried to have it all and it came crashing down. Rebuilding it is very slow and painful.

[HazleNutt]

Actually I do have it all. Good marriage, lovely DS and another one on the way; decent career and some time for hobbies and friends as well. What more should I want?

Yes, obviously I can't be at home playing with DS and working at the same time, unless I clone myself. I don't think anybody who claimed that women can have both family and career actually meant that. But the bigger picture has worked out well enough.

[LinesThatICouldntChange]

Very well put, Hazelnutt

[AnnieLobeseder]

In my experience, people who talk about women "having it all" are actually talking about women "doing it all". Which is utter fucking bollocks. Most SAHMs happily admit that their DH couldn't manage his high-powered career without them home to deal with all the domestic side of family life. Which is perfectly fair and true. And yet when women have a high-powered career they are expected to maintain this career, not only without that support at home, but also to still be that support at home to their husbands. Who the fuck can do that? No-one.

The only way a women can genuinely have it all in terms of maintaining a successful career and a good home-work balance is by marrying a man who steps up and takes equal responsibility for home and family. Who takes on 50% of the childcare, 50% of the days off for sick children/school plays, does 50% of the drop-off and pick ups (assuming equal commuting distance) and does 50% of the housework (including remembering to pack PE kits and packed lunches).

Because otherwise you're shouldering more than anyone can realistically be expected to and it will make you sick, stressed and miserable.

The first stage of women's liberation in the workplace is done - we have stepped up and we have careers that match those of men. The next stage is up to men - they need to step back, take that 6 months paternity leave, take on 50% of the domestic responsibility and "risking" their careers in the same way that women are expected to once they have children.

[mrsmalcolmreynolds]

AnnieLob well said. I have to say I find it a bit depressing that so many of the responses on this thread perpetuate the assumption that it is inevitable/a woman's natural responsibility to do all the home and child management stuff. I don't agree with the PP who said that "motherhood is a full time job" - obviously if you are a woman and have kids you are a mother all the time, but that doesn't mean that it must or should take up all of your time, any more than being a father must or should take up all of a man's time.

I also disagree very much with those who have said that having both parents working inevitably means that everyone is short-changed. First, I don't think that's true - there are compromises to be made but I don't believe that necessarily means that anyone is hard done by. Second, the implication behind that sort of comment is that if one parent (generally expected to be the mother) doesn't work, all a family's issues will be solved and I don't agree with that either because (a) if the SAHP doesn't want to be a SAHP they are getting a raw deal (b) I don't believe it is fundamentally better for children to be at home all the time (c) I personally feel that having one SAHP and one WOHP generally tends to lead to imbalance and a loss of respect within the relationship, cutting both ways. I hasten to add that this is obviously not always the case, I have a number of friends who are SAHP where this has not happened, but more where it has.

[jay55]

They never tell you in order to have it all you need a wife.

[Want2bSupermum]

AnnieLob I totally agree with you regarding men. DH is from Denmark and you would think he would be well versed in equality. The truth is that there in his workplace the only women in middle or senior management positions either have a SAHD or they don't have children.

I have fought tooth and nail to get DH to do his fair share and he is not going to do it. He earns way more than I do and works way less hours too. Truth be told, I have continued working in part because I fear our marriage won't last and I can't rely on him as he doesn't see things as a necessity like I do. Due to this I have hung in at work and been through hell and back during the last six months. I have an interview today and a position has opened up at huge publishing house three blocks from my home which I would LOVE. Hours are 35-40 hours/wk. Right now at 75% I am working 42-45hrs a week. FT is 60hrs/wk.

We have no family here and if my MIL tells me one more time that she worked and kept a clean house I might kill her. Her precious little son is capable of taking care of the DC he created and it should not be up to me to do it, especially after I have put in a 12 hour day to his 7 hours.

MrsMal Until DH does his fair share, the DC and I are short changed. Quite frankly I am pissed off that I am working 90-100hrs per week between work and housework to his 50-55hrs per week. If I were to do the same hours as him the DC would be missing out an awful lot. It is me who does the trips to the library, takes the children to their swim class and runs them to the playground. DH had a day off yesterday with DS as the nanny was off sick. He took DS to a vietnamese restaurant. Poor DS had a diaper full of hot sauce this morning, which yes was left to me to clean up.

[LegoAdventCalendar]

What always strikes me is how many women put up with a sexist partner and continually procreate with the person. After one, when he showed his true colours, off would I trot. I couldn't respect a person who thinks the childcare and housework is mine to do because I have a vagina, much less continue to have sex with them and have more children with such a person.

Ditto one who expected me to go part-time and do it all to enable to him to lord it over me.

Fuck that for a game of soldiers. I agree with Greengrow in many ways in this.

You agree a fair split of the work, then leave him to it. He doesn't do it or hire it out, it gets left undone. 'Oh, but then the kids pay for it.' Yes, they do. Because their father let them down. Which brings me back to my original point: dump sexist men. Don't keep having kids with them.

[HazleNutt]

Of course, your options , financially speaking, of dumping and simply walking away are already somewhat limited, if you have given up work, or scaled back considerably, because the man won't do his fair share.

[Greengrow]

I never understand these threads. Women can have what men have - that is all we want and what Miriam Gonzalez (lawyer) said recently and many of us have it. The secret is a non sexist man in the relationship so you both do as much as the other at home.

Now if women think life should be easy they need to get with the programme and realise it's always been hard work and very hard for men and women.

Why does Want2b's husband earn way more than her? Is that the issue? Was my life easy and lovely because i earned eventually 10x my other half? Is the secret for women to avoid pin money careers and part time work and just go for the money and be ambitious? It's huge fun and win win for everyone.

[AnnieLobeseder]

My DH earns 2x what I do because of the sectors we work in; nothing to do with sexism (though I would possibly be further up the food chain if I hadn't taken 2 years out for maternity leave). But we still share household and childcare responsibilities 50/50. So it's not about who earns more, it's about not marrying a sexist knob.

[MoveAlongNothingtoSeeHere]

Women can have what men have

Are you serious? Yes, there are plenty of examples of individual women who earn what individual men earn in specific jobs. But on average? (in terms of salaries, promotions, etc. etc.).
And in terms of other people's views of "career women" (with or without kids), etc.?

[jellybeans]

greengrow did you used to post under another name beginning with X? Your situation sounds familiar.

I have been a stay home mum for 15 years to five children. I am just finishing an OU degree and have the chance to start a new career, mostly part time but with some full time elements.

However i am so used to being around for the kids and husband has a job with awful ever changing shifts. Most of the mums I know that work have free family childcare, stay home dads, or very flexible hours. I just dont want to have stress beyond belief and childcare worries (which would fall to me as husband has a job where he can't just drop everything). But if I don't do this I worry I may regret it as all my DC are school age and I worry about divorce etc and being forced into low paid work to support myself and DC.

Very difficult issue.

[Surreyblah]

Jelly's is a good example of the difficulties. I so often hear women say they can't do any, more or different paid work because their DH travels, works long hours or whatever. So they support their H's career.

The men seem to get more and more successful at work because the stuff at home is covered. And the worry that seeking flexibility and shorter hours it would risk the main wage in the household.

parents who work are competing with people without DC or other caring responsibilities who are willing to work work work, and employers favour the latter. Parents who work shorter hours and/or flexibly are at a disadvantage against those with a SaHW (it almost always is a wife) or childcare from family.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Surreyblah, that's what I mean when I say that for us to achieve true equality men need to step back and for flexible working to be a normal and perfectly acceptable method of doing business, for both men and women, with children and without. As it stands, in most businesses, people who need to balance work with a family are at a distinct disadvantage, and it generally falls on women to take this risk. The men cry "but it will damage my career" if their wife suggests he work flexibility to match her. But even though it's just as likely to damage her career, he's usually quite happy for her to make a sacrifice he's not prepared to make himself.

[broccoliear]

I have it all, because me and my DH both work part-time. I don't feel guilty when I'm at work, because my kids are happy and thriving with their other parent. Neither of us is suited to staying at home full time, but neither of us wants to miss out on the kids by working FT. This is the perfect compromise.

[Surreyblah]

Yes, it's pants !

[broccoliear]

As pp have said though, it did require me to marry a man who wasn't sexist, and who was keen to actually look after his own children. Even then we had to work hard at the beginning, to ensure we didn't just fall into traditional roles.

[paperlace]

I think it's really quite dense if people believe you can be a fully physically present mother and fully pysically present career woman. Logic dictates that is impossible. Why would anyone think you can do both simultaneously?

I have a successful, fulfllling career with big salary to match, three gorgeous kids, nice house, good marriage. I'm lucky, I'm happy.

But I don't 'have it all' becauase I can't be with my kids and work FT and I'm tired a lot of the time etc.

Did I think I could be with my kids and work? Uh no. It was a choice I made and I knew there would be downsides and stressful times and there have been.